A Song Of Ice And Fire - *Major Spoilers*

[Tancred2001]

Looking forward to more on Littlefinger. The man is the architect of almost every misfortune suffered by the various noble families. His actions directly led to the War of the Five Kings, and currently he's moved up from being Master of Coin to being Lord of Harrenhal, Lord of the Eyrie, Warden of the East and - if he marries Sansa too - Lord of Winterfell. That makes him, by title alone, the most powerful Lord in Westeros. Did he do it all to have status enough to marry Catelyn, while killing off her husband? Or is there something even nastier behind all this?

[Dreamer128]

I doubt Littlefinger will be able to hang on to his title of Lord of the Eyrie (or his life), since it is doubtfull that any of the local lords will support him. More likely than not, they're already conspiring to kill him the same way he dealt with his former wife.

[ 07-25-2005, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Dreamer128 ]

[Bozos of Bones]

Yes, Littlefinger's assets and titles are all a house of cards. If he somehow survives the chain vengeances of Tyrion, Stannis, Catelyn and Cersei, he certainly will not survive Dany. He is of no importance.
As for the Dany and Jon romance even happening, it's a longshot, and it's even longer that they are siblings. He'd sooner be the son of Cersei than related to Dany. And to have a romance with Dany, he'd soon have to leave the Watch, meaning taking Stannis' offer.
We shall see.

[Tancred2001]

The lords of the Eyrie'll have to contend with the Lannisters if they deal with Littlefinger - he's the Lannisters' man in the East, and they'll support him to the last to control the East, I bet. While Littlefinger has young Robert Arryn, at least, he's got the Eyrie. The only person who could tell everyone that Littlefinger was responsible for everything is Sansa, and she's in no position to do so right now.

When Dany comes to Westeros and starts her campaign to retake the throne, I betcha Littlefinger won't survive if he tries to fight - but I *guarantee* that Littlefinger's first move would be to surrender, present himself to her court as a wannabe ally, try to ingratiate himself into her circle of advisors and begin plotting anew to stay ahead of the game. He is, after all, very knowledgeable about the current political situation and the main players in Westeros, and a genius economist. He's too useful for any would-be ruler to kill, and he's not important enough to ransom. That's what he's been using to his advantage so far. If he doesn't die in Feast for Crows, he'll likely survive for quite a lot of Dance with Dragons too.

[shadowhound]

Originally posted by Tancred2001: When Dany comes to Westeros and starts her campaign to retake the throne, I betcha Littlefinger won't survive if he tries to fight - but I *guarantee* that Littlefinger's first move would be to surrender, present himself to her court as a wannabe ally, try to ingratiate himself into her circle of advisors and begin plotting anew to stay ahead of the game. He is, after all, very knowledgeable about the current political situation and the main players in Westeros, and a genius economist. He's too useful for any would-be ruler to kill, and he's not important enough to ransom. That's what he's been using to his advantage so far.

That sounds a little too hasty for Littlefinger, more likely he will wait a while to see how well Dany handles herself before making a move, I believe he is far more likely to offer his services secretly and try to remain on best terms with both sides until a winner presents themselves, until then all he has to do is hide safely in the Eyrie.

[Timber Loftis]

I can't believe you think it's a longshot that Jon and Dany are related. As far as I can tell, she is Jon's aunt. As for Jon being committed to The Black and unable to wed, well I think by the time it's all done, the realm will be so rent assunder by the Others that some rules may be scrapped in order to put the realm back together under Targaryen rule.

[ 07-25-2005, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Timber Loftis]

Isn't it interesting that the whole reason Ned thought Jon Arryn was killed -- his snooping into Robert's bastards -- was not the reason at all. If I've got the right of it, Arryn was killed by Littlefinger so he and her could wed. Right? I think a lot of Littlefinger's actions were dictated by acting in the moment to a lot of variables. I think he just played the moment's right, and that he didn't really have a "grand design" other than to get himself a better lordship in the Vale.

[Dreamer128]

Originally posted by Tancred2001: The lords of the Eyrie'll have to contend with the Lannisters if they deal with Littlefinger - he's the Lannisters' man in the East, and they'll support him to the last to control the East, I bet.

Let's not forget that most of the lords of the Eyrie were in favor of supporting house Stark during the war. Now, after house Llanister has been seriously damaged by the war (they've lost Tyrion, Tywin, both of the Clegane brothers, Kevin is heading back to Casterly Rock and Jaime isn't quite his former self, as well as a significant loss of troops after campaigns against Stannis and the Starks) and every other major faction short of Dany's and the Ery (who are apparently pretty powerful) has been decimated they are in a rather strong position.

[ 07-25-2005, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: Dreamer128 ]

[Bozos of Bones]

I didn't get the impression that the Erie is all that powerful-military wise. I mean, the queen sure didn't do nothing about army. Her politics was that she was on the top of an untakeable mountain in an untakeable fortress. All the army she trained was the castle guards and a small force here and there. Remember that she had quite some trouble with the "savages". She attacked them, but didn't seem to have the might to crush them. Littlefinger will somehow survive to be burned by the dragons, ironic Harenhall revisited. Since he was at a time the lord of Harenhall, maybe it was his destiny [img]tongue.gif[/img] But I don't think he'll make any attempt to join with Dany, not if he finds out about Cat being alive... or not as dead as people thought. And I don't believe he acted on impulse and luck, all he did do was for the grander scheme to ask for Cat's hand in marriage.
As for Jon and Dany being related... I must say I am kinda seeing it possible now... But still, the situations are a bit far-fetched. Do talk, maybe I can remember some part where it could have been posible.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Bozos of Bones: As for Jon and Dany being related... I must say I am kinda seeing it possible now... But still, the situations are a bit far-fetched. Do talk, maybe I can remember some part where it could have been posible.

In GoT, the 10th "Eddard" chapter is one where Ned, under the Milk of the Poppy, remembers the events at the Tower of Joy. The 3 Kingsguard missing at the Trident and the Red Keep, were set by Rhaegar to guard the Tower of Joy. These were no ordinary Kingsguard, but the best: Ser Gerold Hightower, the White Bull, Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of Morning and Ser Oswell Whent. These men were legends, but they would not bend the knee and they were sworn to a vow. Ned loses five of his men in vanquishing the legendary Kingsguard. He is awoken while dreaming of making his promise to his dying sister Lyanna at the Tower of Joy.

Now, what would the best Kingsguard be protecting at the Tower of Joy? The legends through the books tell of Jon being the son of Lady Ashara Dayne (who jumped from the Tower of Joy, either for love of Ned or for loss of her brother) or some girl Wylla at a tourney. But, for my money, I'm betting he's the child of Lyanna and Rhaegar. The sole remaining living male child of Rhaegar, and Rhaegar wants him well protected -- especially since Rhaegar stands to be King with the Mad King dead.

Remember how Rhaegar won a tourney and bypassed his wife to give Lyanna the flower? Remember when Ned and Robert are arguing over the morality of Robert's plans to kill Dany, Robert asks Ned "How many times did Rhaegar rape Lyann?" Ned makes a promise to the dying Lyanna at the Tower of Joy. Ned tells Cat that Jon "is my blood, and that is all you need to know."

I'm betting that Jon Snow is a Stark/Targaryen, and the Lyanna died as a result of birthing him. Being the son of Rhaegar, Dany's brother, Dany would therefore be his aunt.

[ 07-25-2005, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]