dual or multi class - Page 2

Stratos · 08-31-2004, 06:49 AM

DC Fighter/mage should be able to use longbows. It's been awhile since I've played one too, but perhaps you need to regain your Fighter abilites to use them as Mages are unable to use them. It could also be insufficient strength; you need a strength score of 12 (I think) to use longbows and 15 to use composite longbows.

On the Horn of Valhalla thing; if you want the berserkers to be really good, Haste them and watch the carnage.

The berserkers are among the best summons in the game, but to be frank, my solo Bard just reached Upper Dorns Keep and is beginning to see their limitations.

NobleNick · 08-31-2004, 10:31 AM

Stratos,

My initial reaction to your post was, "No way!" But as I thought about it, I realized that I have no character that can prove you wrong; since I haven't DCed my Fighters into "battle mages," yet. (Temporarily shelved that party, started before I got HoW, in order to experiment with Bards and Druids.) Now that I think about it, my DC Fighter/Thief CAN use long bow, so why not a DC Fighter/Mage? Ooops!! Where did I get this firm conviction that DCs involving Mages could not use long bow? I hope you are right, Stratos. In the meantime, everyone, please accept my apology for spouting off about something I haven't proved. (BTW: low STR wouldn't be the problem, since I ensure that all my Fighter mixes, with the sole exception of the very tough to roll DC Fighter/Druid, have a minimum of 18 STR with no modifier.)

I hadn't thought of hasting Berserkers; because it seems like they come ALREADY hasted! And I very rarely use Haste, since I don't like the after effect. How many hits does a Berserker normally get in per round? It's gotta be at least 3, and my best guess is 4 or more ApR. So a hasted Berserker would get... Oh, WOW!! I don't believe that answer! I'm going to have to do this just to see it!

There is a phase in the latter game of IWD where it seemed that the tough fights included a boss or group of monsters that required magical weapons for the attacker to get a hit, which greatly lowered the value of Berserkers. However, they were still very sturdy cannon fodder AND excellent against enemy summons. And, though it seemed they were running out of steam towards the end of IWD, they picked up in value in the expansions, where they saved my bacon several times. I found many more battles for which they could have been useful; but this spell is so powerful that I found myself hoarding it in HoW/TotLM as my ace-up-the-sleeve.

As much as I like Bards, soloing one is not my idea of fun. (Soloing doesn't sound like fun, period. But if I were to do it, a Bard would be low on my list of characters to try.) Their power lies in their ability to highly leverage the strengths of other party members, especially members that like to melee. Yeah, I guess, you could load down the Bard with summons spells and have her sing to her own creations; but, as I guess you are finding out, when the enemy requires you to have magical weapons to get a hit, this tactic loses its luster.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

Stratos · 08-31-2004, 12:44 PM

Think nothing of it, I just found it strange that DC F/M wouldn't be able to use bows as the only restriction they have is that they can't cast spells while wearing armour. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I solo a Bard more for the challenge. Having only 1 APR while fighting melee sucks, but with bows things start to look better; the Messager of Sseth, for example, gives me three attacks per round. The only problem is lugging around all the arrows.

To be completely honest, I don't use War Chant of Sith that much. It doesn't seem to help the berserkers much, and the regeneration rate can't possible keep up with the amount of damage they take. Why, oh why don't they wear any armour?

And too bad there isn't a mage spell that can enchant someone else's (the berserkers, that is) weapons with, say, fire damage effect.

Dundee Slaytern · 09-01-2004, 06:38 AM

War Chant of Sith is a lifesaver on HoF Mode (IMHO).

A Fighter->Mage can use Bows.

NobleNick · 09-01-2004, 01:29 PM

Thanks for setting me straight, Dundee. Feels just like old times...

And how did I miss your previous post, Aerich? Too focused in on Stratos' message, me thinks. I agree with your nice bit on Bards: well put. And, no: As we (including me, now) all expect, and as Dundee strongly implied, HoW or not to HoW makes no difference in bows for the DC Fighter/Mage. (I've found that Dundee's word is the next best thing to being there.

I have proved him wrong.. err.. once.. I think...)

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

08-31-2004, 06:49 AM	#11
Stratos Vampire Join Date: January 29, 2003 Location: Sweden Age: 44 Posts: 3,888	DC Fighter/mage should be able to use longbows. It's been awhile since I've played one too, but perhaps you need to regain your Fighter abilites to use them as Mages are unable to use them. It could also be insufficient strength; you need a strength score of 12 (I think) to use longbows and 15 to use composite longbows. On the Horn of Valhalla thing; if you want the berserkers to be really good, Haste them and watch the carnage. The berserkers are among the best summons in the game, but to be frank, my solo Bard just reached Upper Dorns Keep and is beginning to see their limitations. __________________ Nothing is impossible, it's just a matter of probability.

08-31-2004, 12:44 PM	#13
Stratos Vampire Join Date: January 29, 2003 Location: Sweden Age: 44 Posts: 3,888	Think nothing of it, I just found it strange that DC F/M wouldn't be able to use bows as the only restriction they have is that they can't cast spells while wearing armour. [img]smile.gif[/img] I solo a Bard more for the challenge. Having only 1 APR while fighting melee sucks, but with bows things start to look better; the Messager of Sseth, for example, gives me three attacks per round. The only problem is lugging around all the arrows. To be completely honest, I don't use War Chant of Sith that much. It doesn't seem to help the berserkers much, and the regeneration rate can't possible keep up with the amount of damage they take. Why, oh why don't they wear any armour? And too bad there isn't a mage spell that can enchant someone else's (the berserkers, that is) weapons with, say, fire damage effect. __________________ Nothing is impossible, it's just a matter of probability.

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08-31-2004, 10:31 AM	#12
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 64 Posts: 1,045	Stratos, My initial reaction to your post was, "No way!" But as I thought about it, I realized that I have no character that can prove you wrong; since I haven't DCed my Fighters into "battle mages," yet. (Temporarily shelved that party, started before I got HoW, in order to experiment with Bards and Druids.) Now that I think about it, my DC Fighter/Thief CAN use long bow, so why not a DC Fighter/Mage? Ooops!! Where did I get this firm conviction that DCs involving Mages could not use long bow? I hope you are right, Stratos. In the meantime, everyone, please accept my apology for spouting off about something I haven't proved. (BTW: low STR wouldn't be the problem, since I ensure that all my Fighter mixes, with the sole exception of the very tough to roll DC Fighter/Druid, have a minimum of 18 STR with no modifier.) I hadn't thought of hasting Berserkers; because it seems like they come ALREADY hasted! And I very rarely use Haste, since I don't like the after effect. How many hits does a Berserker normally get in per round? It's gotta be at least 3, and my best guess is 4 or more ApR. So a hasted Berserker would get... Oh, WOW!! I don't believe that answer! I'm going to have to do this just to see it! There is a phase in the latter game of IWD where it seemed that the tough fights included a boss or group of monsters that required magical weapons for the attacker to get a hit, which greatly lowered the value of Berserkers. However, they were still very sturdy cannon fodder AND excellent against enemy summons. And, though it seemed they were running out of steam towards the end of IWD, they picked up in value in the expansions, where they saved my bacon several times. I found many more battles for which they could have been useful; but this spell is so powerful that I found myself hoarding it in HoW/TotLM as my ace-up-the-sleeve. As much as I like Bards, soloing one is not my idea of fun. (Soloing doesn't sound like fun, period. But if I were to do it, a Bard would be low on my list of characters to try.) Their power lies in their ability to highly leverage the strengths of other party members, especially members that like to melee. Yeah, I guess, you could load down the Bard with summons spells and have her sing to her own creations; but, as I guess you are finding out, when the enemy requires you to have magical weapons to get a hit, this tactic loses its luster. -------------------- What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!!

09-01-2004, 06:38 AM	#14
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 42 Posts: 11,063	War Chant of Sith is a lifesaver on HoF Mode (IMHO). A Fighter->Mage can use Bows.

09-01-2004, 01:29 PM	#15
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 64 Posts: 1,045	Thanks for setting me straight, Dundee. Feels just like old times... And how did I miss your previous post, Aerich? Too focused in on Stratos' message, me thinks. I agree with your nice bit on Bards: well put. And, no: As we (including me, now) all expect, and as Dundee strongly implied, HoW or not to HoW makes no difference in bows for the DC Fighter/Mage. (I've found that Dundee's word is the next best thing to being there. I have proved him wrong.. err.. once.. I think...) -------------------- What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!!

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