shade lord

[posthuman]

I'm just about to fight the same dragon (which will be my first dragon battle in history) as well! Although I'm still about an hour playing time from reaching him, I've come across a tip that my friend gave me, although I can't be sure how well it will work...

Possible Spoilers..
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If you have a mage of some sort in your party, try to raise him to level 12 if he isn't already. One way to help gain experience for him/her faster than normal is to boot out everyone else in the party momentarily (if your main character isn't the mage then boot out everyone except your guy and the mage), then have the mage memorize spell scrolls, he gains thousands of experience points for each spell memorized and these can add up quickly. After your mage your finished doing so, get your party members back and move on.

Back to hunting that dragon... once your mage has reached level 12, the level 1 spell "Chromatic Orb" becomes VERRRY powerful (save vs. spell or creature is destroyed). Dragons will pretty much always make the save here, UNLESS you use the spells "Doom" and/or "Greater Malison" on it first. Then Chromatic Orb that bugger and see if you can do a world of hurtin'.

Of course, I must state again that my friend told me about this and I won't know how well it works until tonight... nevertheless, I'd still highly recommend making your mage level 12 and adding "Doom" "Greater Malison" and "Chromatic Orb" to his spell list, they're still an amazing combination against difficult enemies.

[Cam_H]

SPOILERS
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^ Doom has a similar effect to the Chromatic Orb in that it's the 'second round' spell to cast, whereas Lower Resistance and Greater Malison fall into the 'first round'.

Personally I think that this sort of approach is cheesy, and I'd encourage people to try to take the dragon on in battle for a more fulfilling gaming experience. There's always the magical reload option.

[teardropmina]

Originally posted by Cam_H: SPOILERS . . . . . . . . ^ Doom has a similar effect to the Chromatic Orb in that it's the 'second round' spell to cast, whereas Lower Resistance and Greater Malison fall into the 'first round'. Personally I think that this sort of approach is cheesy, and I'd encourage people to try to take the dragon on in battle for a more fulfilling gaming experience. There's always the magical reload option.

well, sorry, I fail to see why that tactics would fall in into the category of cheese. IMO, it's a legitimate MAGE way of dealing with dragons. Spellcasters rely on the creative and effective combination spells to defeat monsters or give commrades an adventage in battle. Especially that tactics doesn't invlove any cheesy item, such as that cloak of cheese. There're so many classes and ways of playing game, there's fighter's way, thief's way, and spellcaster's way, which one you deem most "fulfilling"? you might want to spell out what you meant by "a more fulfilling gaming experience"?

[ 07-26-2005, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: teardropmina ]

[Aragorn1]

NO I don't think using valid spell combinations is cheese. Now tend not to use instant death spells, but that's because I find it too easy, not because of any idea that its cheese.

Last time I think I lowered resistance and MM'd it to death , with a little help from my fighters and a few bolts of glory from my cleric and MMM from Edwin IIRC.

[SixOfSpades]

I believe Cam_H was referring to kicking people out of the party before scribing scrolls as being cheesy.

[Cam_H]

@ Six,

Thanks - now that you mention it, both actually.

@ Teardropmina,

I'm saying "Personally I think that this sort of approach is cheesy" ... you disagree, and that's fine.

There are a gazillion exploits in this game, and Lord knows I've probably used most of them myself, but bringing down a Dragon with a handful of lowish level Mage spells; spells that for some unknown reason don't cause an enemy to go hostile and go hunting, as the party enjoys a fairly easily-won and over-the-top protection through a ward stone to me is cheesy. It's not the spells per se, it's that the enemy is passive and unmoved while it's defenses are in effect being attacked. If you were to cast those spells in mid-combat, then that's completely fair.

I admit that it's a game problem, not really a player problem, but it's up to the player as to whether it's really 'good sportsmanship' to adopt such approaches.

"You might want to spell out what you meant by "a more fulfilling gaming experience"?

Winning a battle that involves undertaking some risk.

I acknowledge that there are probably exceptions - trying to take on a certain 'multi-part spellcaster' in The Docks will almost by necessity involve using some cheap tactic or another unless your party is comprised in a particular way. I admit that at times, I resort to cheese, but I cringe to myself when it happens.

I think for posthuman, it would be much more rewarding to win the battle as a battle rather than a spellcasting procedure.

[Aragorn1]

Originally posted by Cam_H: bringing down a Dragon with a handful of lowish level Mage spells; spells that for some unknown reason don't cause an enemy to go hostile and go hunting, as the party enjoys a fairly easily-won and over-the-top protection through a ward stone to me is cheesy. It's not the spells per se, it's that the enemy is passive and unmoved while it's defenses are in effect being attacked. If you were to cast those spells in mid-combat, then that's completely fair.

Doesn't Baldurdash fix this problem? Try cast magic resistance, a non-hostile spell, and the thing still comes after you!

Obviously exploiting the not turning hostile is cheese. I don't think that was ever mentioned though, was it?

[Cam_H]

Aragorn1,

I'll need to test it if that's the case ... iirc I've cast Lower Resistance (with Baldurdash) and kept the Dragon passive ... not that I endorse such a thing!

[teardropmina]

Originally posted by Cam_H: @ Teardropmina, I'm saying "Personally I think that this sort of approach is cheesy" ... you disagree, and that's fine. There are a gazillion exploits in this game, and Lord knows I've probably used most of them myself, but bringing down a Dragon with a handful of lowish level Mage spells; spells that for some unknown reason don't cause an enemy to go hostile and go hunting, as the party enjoys a fairly easily-won and over-the-top protection through a ward stone to me is cheesy. It's not the spells per se, it's that the enemy is passive and unmoved while it's defenses are in effect being attacked. If you were to cast those spells in mid-combat, then that's completely fair.

now, it's clear and I tend to agree; however, refer back to the post with the tactics in question, I really don't see it hint on anything about doing something to the dragon while she's not hostile. I myself never go attack anything before it turn red-circled, but I think, someone correct me if I'm wrong, great malison and doom will make enemy turn hostile (I always play with baldurdash fix). anyway, I made my comment because I didn't see from the tactucs the intention of "getting the dragon while she's still blue-circled."
my point is that engaing a battle with the dragon with that spell combination, to me, is no less dignified than say, meleeing to the victory.

btw, among the most rewarding gaming experience of mine was one when taking out the shadow dragon with a lvl 9 party (temple ruin being the second major subquest, after saving the slaves in copper coronet).

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Originally posted by Cam_H: Aragorn1, I'll need to test it if that's the case ... iirc I've cast Lower Resistance (with Baldurdash) and kept the Dragon passive ... not that I endorse such a thing!

Especially since that turns creatures hostile without Baldurdash.