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Old 07-20-2005, 05:03 AM   #11
White Lancer
Drizzt Do'Urden
 

Join Date: August 30, 2002
Location: Australia
Age: 39
Posts: 628
I would strongly advise against the sell/steal trick wit the thieves guilds. It takes all the sense of achievement out of finally saving enough gold to buy the weapons. There is plenty of gold t be found, easily enough to get all of the best buyable weapons/items before chapter 4, so why cheat yourself?
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It deons\'t mttaer waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, it olny mtaetrs taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be croecrt. The rset can be a tatol mses and you can sitll raed it. The huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
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Old 07-20-2005, 05:48 AM   #12
Aragorn1
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Join Date: July 3, 2001
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It is an evil party, an the theif I assume isn't lawful....
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Old 07-20-2005, 05:57 AM   #13
SixOfSpades
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Join Date: September 16, 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA, USA
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cam_H:
Although it's a random thing, I've been caught by both Bernard at the Copper Coronet, and Gorch at Mae'Var's Guild despite very high 'pick pocket' buffed scores.
A Pick Pockets score of 100% is okay when dipping into the pockets of random Commoners on the street. But it gets riskier when you try to do the same thing to officers of the law: They're on the lookout for petty thieves just like you, and therefore they have an innate resistance to pickpocketing--the effect of this is that you need a higher Pick Pcokets score if you don't want to get caught. Other NPCs in the game have even greater negative modifiers to your PP score: Ever tried to pickpocket Renal Bloodscalp? All Stores will penalize your PP score as well--on average, it goes down by 100% when shoplifting.

I have heard that no matter WHAT your PP score is, when you're pickpocketing someone, there is always at least a 1% chance of failure: The "Critical Miss" of the cutpurse's trade. I do not know if the same holds true when shoplifting.
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Old 07-20-2005, 06:07 AM   #14
JrKASperov
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Join Date: July 16, 2003
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And just a reminder: shoplifting IS worth it. You can get LOTS of valuable items. You might not need all of them, so what?! Do the REAL thieflike thing and FENCE them! That way you'll amass loads of cash RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME to buy the Adventurer's Mart dry!
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Old 07-20-2005, 12:52 PM   #15
Klutz
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Join Date: November 9, 2002
Location: Houston, TX
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cam_H:
quote:
Originally posted by Lord:
there are barely any items worth stealing in the game.


SPOILER
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Not that the best weapons in the game are stealable, but there are tons of very useful ones that are. If I'm not mistaken, weapons that are stealable include; Azuredge +3, Stonefire +3, Tansheron's Bow +3, Arrows of Dispelling, Arrows of Piercing, Arrows of Biting, Bolts of Biting, Blackblood +3, Firetooth Dagger +3, The Sleeper +2, Ras +2, Blade of Roses +3, Mauler's Arm +2, Martial Staff +3, Rod of Smiting +3, Staff of Earth +2, Sling of Seeking +2, Spear of Withering +4, and the Dwarven Thrower +3.

Throw in some pretty darn good stealable scrolls, shields, potions, and as noted above the Belt of Inertial Barrier, and then on top of that you've got items such as the Necklace of Missiles and the Cloak of Displacement. For kicks, recharge your wands and rods.
[/QUOTE]Several of the items you've listed come from Bernard, whom I've never had any luck stealing from (Azuredge, Stonefire, Blade of Roses, Sleeper, Mauler's Arm, Sling of Seeking). However I agree that Trademeet and Ust Natha are treasure troves of good items to filch. In Athkatla, when my party is feeling larcenous my main targets for stealing are actually the scroll merchants (including the nighttime black market ones in the SE Promenade and W Bridge District) to build up a big inventory of scribed spells (and/or spells to save for Imoen) quickly.

Also agreed on the recharging wands point (at least without forking over a fortune bigger than what you'd need to rescue Imoen). The Wand of Monster Summoning from Irenicus's Dungeon is my favorite, but the Wands of Fire, Cloudkill, and Heavens (Firestorm for Clerics) can be very handy also. You only need to do it once to get 50 or more charges, which is plenty.
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Old 07-20-2005, 08:12 PM   #16
Cam_H
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Join Date: July 12, 2005
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@ White Lancer and JrKAS,

Personally I think that the 'stealing' aspect to BG2 is pretty poorly handled. There's certainly some room for a stealing element ... I mean, as JrKAS points out, that's what thieves do ... but its implementation is pretty poor, with the 'multiple potions buff' then 'repeated reselling of hot goods' being the worst.

Frankly I think slipping a full coat of metal armor under your cloak while distracting the shop keeper is absurd. Flagging goods as stolen once (able to resell to dubious merchants) and stolen twice ('too hot', unable to sell at all) might have been one way fairly simple way around it. Also flagging some goods as unstealable due to their physical size or high value would probably add a more sensible dimension to the game.

Personally I've a rule that I will only steal what I intend to use, will not sell hot goods, and will not steal wands. But each to their own.

@ Six,

What you say makes sense to me, and 'no' I've never tried to pick pocket Renal, but I assume the result is not good.

@ Kludz,

Usually I can get a few items out of Bernard, but as noted, I've been caught before and had to drag him out into the street and negotiate a settlement with him using my shiney new axe . Speaking of theft-vulnerable scroll merchants, Lazarus in ToB is a handy source.
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Old 07-20-2005, 08:59 PM   #17
White Lancer
Drizzt Do'Urden
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Cam_H:
@ White Lancer and JrKAS,

Frankly I think slipping a full coat of metal armor under your cloak while distracting the shop keeper is absurd. Flagging goods as stolen once (able to resell to dubious merchants) and stolen twice ('too hot', unable to sell at all) might have been one way fairly simple way around it. Also flagging some goods as unstealable due to their physical size or high value would probably add a more sensible dimension to the game.

Personally I've a rule that I will only steal what I intend to use, will not sell hot goods, and will not steal wands. But each to their own.
I agree, you should not be able to steal armor, of any type. Having said that, it'd be quite difficult to steal weapons as well, with the exception of daggers. Personally i think you should only be able to steal things which you acn fit in your pocket, necklaces, rings, potions ect. And you should be able to sell anything to anyone, with the exception of unique items such as the Staff of Rhyn+4, belt of inertial barrier ect. Those items would be recognised.

My rule is basically "thou shalt not steal" I think the way theft from shops is handled could be done much better and i refuse todo it, not only because it is implausible, but because i prefer to go adventuring and save for those nice items, gives a sense of satisfaction.

Pick-pocketing is another matter, if you have something in your pocket and it isnt tied down, its mine.
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It deons\'t mttaer waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, it olny mtaetrs taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be croecrt. The rset can be a tatol mses and you can sitll raed it. The huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
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Old 07-21-2005, 02:56 AM   #18
Desuma Malevois
Emerald Dragon
 

Join Date: March 20, 2001
Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Age: 65
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cam_H:

DANGER! DANGER! SPOILER BELOW!
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You 'can' steal a valuable ring from the Adventurer's Mart.

Although it's a random thing, I've been caught by both Bernard at the Copper Coronet, and Gorch at Mae'Var's Guild despite very high 'pick pocket' buffed scores.
Quite possibly the pickpocket success rate is modified by the victim's level, as is called for in pnp Dungeons & Dragons. If this is the case it would explain Bernard, who is extremely difficult to steal from and is over 10th level according to Infinity Explorer.
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Old 07-21-2005, 05:04 AM   #19
Cam_H
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@ White Lancer,

Pure class thieves and bards are kinda sucky anyway, so I cut them some slack by allowing them to plunder stores. F/M/T ... well ... maybe not. .

I mean, when evil is everywhere, why shouldn't adventurers be able to equip themselves properly by accessing at least some of the horde of treasure that those greedy merchants keep at arm's length from the very people that protect their wellbeing? Bernard is complicit in turning a blind eye to an atrocious excercise of prostitution and illegal bookmaking (the latter that involves disgraceful cruelty to animals to boot!). The Trademeet merchants should give you more than the miserable 20,000-odd gold that they muster anyway for salvaging their businesses. And as for the Drow ... well they deserve everything that comes their way! Lasarus, well you rescued all his scrolls from the outset - why shouldn't you reward yourself?

@ Desuma

Bernard? A 10th Level what? 10th Level Peasant?
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Old 07-21-2005, 08:19 AM   #20
Western Paladin
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Join Date: July 11, 2005
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I think some of those random peasants are flagged as Fighters and some of them may be flagged as other weird things. Actually, a lot of characters have weird coding. Elence Fielding is an elf mage, Anishai is a Chaotic Neutral monk (yes, that is technically illegal) and the Major Domo is (Lawful?) Evil.
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