Ironman game on insane? Suggestions

[el_kalkylus]

I haven't been using some cheesy tactics that I could, now that I think of it. Example, I could sell wands, buy them back with 50 charges, and the beginning will be a walk in the park. I could also install Deidres pack for über items like robe of vecna and shield of balduran and +5 sling. Should I? Or will that be too cheesy?

I do use tactics like making everyone invisible, close a doorway and let someone fire arrows at the monsters. In Irenicus dungeon I killed the Otyiegh (?) by standing at the doorway using a quarterstaff+1 which is also a little cheesy, but not really.

Now what items should they use?

Barb - Specialize sword&shield style ++, axes ++, flail ++, and katana maybe? Flail of ages + 3 and a throwing axe. When the time comes, maybe he can use the celestial fury.

Kensai - Dualwield ++, longswords +++++. I'm looking forward to blackrazor, and I like the domination and confusion resistance I get from the sword in the planar plane (bridge district). There are so many good long swords. There is even one with +4 to evil creatures and a nice spell at that doing over 1000+ damage if close to an undead. The drawback with dualwielding is that I won't use ranged attacks with this char.

Assassin - Short Bow, longsword and dagger maybe. Also Crossbow. Doesn't matter really, he is only proficient at most in each weapon. However, like stated above, very useful vs mages, and a good scout. What matters is what to choose when I dualclass. I am thinking of grand mastery in short bow (tuigan or gesen), or crossbow or quarterstaff. Bow vs backstab. I could mix too. Crossbow ++ and quarterstaff ++ maybe, and ++ in two-handed weaponstyle.

(thinking out loud)

[whathuh]

You got tob right?
Barb gets Flail **, Dual *(*), Axe**, Hammer **; Weapons I suggest are FoA, Crom, Defender of Easthaven, Azureedge (MoD +2 and Mace **), Axe of Unyielding, Frostreaver axe thing.

Kensai gets Katana **(***), Longsword **(***), Dual **, or even Bastard Sword *****; Weapons I suggest are Celestial fury, Valygar's katana, Daystar (not for long tho), Adjatha, Foebane (You won't get larlochs unil tob, but still +3 weapon on first level of keep), Jhor the Bleeder, Purifier, Blackrazor (VERY FUN INDEED), Flametongue for demiliches, and the answerer.

Assassin, Short bow -or- xbow -or- dagger *****, Katana or longsword, or even scimitar, whichever Kensai not using *****, single weapon style *(*); Weapons I suggest are those above suitable for backstab, Gesen/tuigan, firetooth xbow, firetooth dagger, spectral brand, scarlet ninjato, kachiko's wakizashi. In my opinion, backstabbing with quarterstaves is way too much cheese because of the immense power they have. Staff of striking, ram and magi are all WAY too powerful for a backstab.

[Leslie]

My 0.02: when you play on insane it's your DEFENSE that is most important and not your offense. Read again what Six posted. Your barbarians and kensai/thieves will DIE miserably! You need PFMW!

My last party that I tried the Insane no reloads consisted of:

PC: Kensai/Mage (dualled at 9)
Jaheira (F/D - Ironskins)
Aerie (C/M - all the buffs)
Solaufein (F/M - similar to PC)
Kelsey (Sorcerer - duh!)
Imoen (T/M - thieving + protection + arcane attack)

They are IMHO the best team of NPC's for a no reloads insane game.

[Xen]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: Xen, a fellow poster here, enjoys playing Insane, and therefore swears by three very important spells: Stoneskin, Ironskin, and Protection from Magic Weapons. From what I can tell, his policy is to NEVER use any party member that cannot cast at least one of these spells, because on an Insane game, any hit can kill you, so the only way to stay alive is to ensure that you take no damage whatsoever. Me, I always play Core Rules, and I'm more a fan of Multiclassing than Dualclassing, so my current party is: Halfling Fighter/Thief (Tank) Elven Fighter/Mage Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist Half-Elven Ranger/Cleric Elven Fighter/Mage/Thief Everybody's a Warrior, everybody but the Tank can cast spells (and even the Tank will be able to read scrolls), both sides of the Priest scroll are available, 3 Wizards means plently of butt-kicking goodness, and 2 Thieves means fast specialization and lots of Traps to spread around.

Hey thanks Six. [img]smile.gif[/img] Truth to be told I haven't posted on IW for a long time. I also haven't played the game for a long, long time.

Anyway my party would be:
PC - Socerer
Jaheira - F/D
Aerie C/M
Solaufein or random F/M
Imoen

[K2Grey]

Don't rely on your party. Instead, make every battle a big summon fest.

[Assassin]

1] Ranger/Cleric (dual class)
2] Assassin/Mage (dual)
3] Fighter/Thief (multi or dual)
4] Fighter/Druid (multi) -> Jaheira
5] Mage/Thief (multi and PC) -> Jan
6] Sorcerer -> Kelsey or Tashia?

But, if you want 1 PC and 5 NPCs...
1] Jan
2] Valygar (or Solaufein)
3] Jaheira
4] Kelsey
5] Aerie
6] Assassin -> Mage

I've played with a party like this before. When all of the Mages get MMM, enemies start to melt like water. When all of the Mages get MMM *and* IH, fights get over even quicker. When Spell SEquencers start getting filled up... Well, the enemies die. Not to mention that poison-stutter via the Assasin will incapacitate the strongest one, leaving the rest to deal with at your pleasure.

[whathuh]

My favorite is summon berzerk warrior after berzerk warrior via iron horn of valhalla and recharge cheese. With the upgraded versions, the iron horn gives a guy with like 7/2 ApR, 2hsw +3, immune to regular stuff. Hes a real tank, but dies to anyone that can stun lock him, since his defense is rather lacking.

Also, who says the Kensai doesn't have PMW? Tack on UAI, I get a kensai with vhailor's and pmw/timestop/imphaste and unleash 9 ApR with pretty much unlimited time. Who the hell needs defense if they can't even move to hit you?

As for the barbarian, Check this:
White dragon scale, -2AC 50% Cold Res
Boots of North, 50% Cold Res
Helm of Rock, 25% res fir,ele,cld,acd,psn
Rauranch's, 50% crush
Defender of Easthaven, 20% crush,pierce,slash +1 AC
Barbarian innate, 20% phys
Belt/intertial barrier, 50% MagicD, 25% miss
Hardiness, 40% phys
Cloak of Reflect, 100% ele
Montolio, +1 AC/saves
Seldarine, +1 save 10% MR
RoP+3, +3 Ac/Saves
Gaxx, everyone knows this ring
Take a look at immunity to crushing weapons, veritable immunity to elemental attacks, 80% slash/pierce resist, 85 missile resist. Tack on Improved bhaalspawn power 4 and you get immunity to all 4, but that's a really long ways away. Improved hell tests gives 30% slashing resist, and Ritual gives yellow dragon armor with 50% pierce/missile. So again, is PMW all that necessary?

And what's going to pierce the -13 AC? Only a lot of specialized fighters, that's what. Remember the Barb's also got ilbratha's mirror image, a couple of skins from the gargoyle boots, imp haste from any number of bracers, cloaks, scrolls, and amulets.

[ 05-24-2005, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: whathuh ]

[el_kalkylus]

Haha, blackrazor fun indeed. Yeah. What should I do, it's in the game, lol. Oh yeah, Crom Faeyr too. I think I agree with you that backstabbing with quarterstaff is too much cheese. I can imagine staff of magi. Backstab, invisible, backstab, invisible, etc.

Ok I started, and so far so good. Got the flail of ages without dying, and picked up some stuff from ToB tower level 1. Yoshimo helped this time. I'll go kill some liches now, then Kangaxx. Side with Bodhi? I think that's best, item wise. Then onto the difficult task of saving Haerdalis in planar plane. Demons and elementals are usually tough for me to beat.

I ended up with

Gnome Illusionist/cleric (Stewie voice from family guy)
Dwarf barbarian, sword and shield style ++, axes ++, flail ++ , katana + (Korgan voice)
Human assassin, longsword and stuff (Anna's voice, nice one)
Human kensai, longswords +++++, dualwield ++ (female voice 4, "you will fall by my hand!")

Melee party. But still need magic, buffing, casting animals and skeletons for meat shields.

Nice description on the barbarian you have whathuh. That's quite an impressive barb. I wish mine could be like that some day too.

Offense better than defense? Not in an ironman game maybe.

[Assassin]

Take a look at immunity to crushing weapons, veritable immunity to elemental attacks, 80% slash/pierce resist, 85 missile resist. Tack on Improved bhaalspawn power 4 and you get immunity to all 4, but that's a really long ways away. Improved hell tests gives 30% slashing resist, and Ritual gives yellow dragon armor with 50% pierce/missile. So again, is PMW all that necessary?

Compare that with PfMW, which means that you don't have to worry about AC, Stoneskin and Mirror Image, which means that you don't have to worry about being hit on the odd chance that your PfMW isn't up, and PfE and other random odd elemental protections spells. Same result and more items for the rest of the party.

Not to mention that in a party, those goodies will be distributed to different members of the group.

[el_kalkylus]

Defender of Easthaven is not available for me. And I don't think I can use Valygars katana either. I guess there is a way to get it, but since I don't dualwield, I don't think I'll use it anyway. Nice bonuses though. At level 12 and 15 I have two more extra +, so by then I should be able to dualwield.

BTW, could someone tell me how I can kill Renald Bloodscalp without having that über thief coming at me? Arcanis Gath or something like that.

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I~'m looking for boot of speeds.

[ 05-25-2005, 05:43 AM: Message edited by: el_kalkylus ]