Dilemma

[JrKASperov]

But the char you mention is lawful GOOD.

A lawful NEUTRAL character doesn't have to care about what others do, let alone a lawful EVIL one. Even when monks are lawful, that means far from adhering to the law, in fact, in the case of monks, the lawfulness comes from their discipline and calm and devotion to their martial art. Yoshimo seems quite calm, baring the humorous KAI calls. He could just as well be disciplined to his martial art, as he doesn't speak about doing anything special.

[Link]

Let me begin by stating that I don't like the alignment system one bit. It's a restriction to the true sense of roleplaying, and in my eyes, draws conclusions on wrong and stupid reasons. Taken that Balthazar is Lawful Good as you say he is, his actions and his motives hardly make him so, and I think he's more Chaotic Good than anything else.

But before I fall into that trap and start ranting about the alignment system, let's get back to you point. You are right to say that neutral or evil characters might have no objection to what others do or think. However (whatever good intentions you may have had with that particular part in your post), you are, in my eyes, wrong to say that the monk's lawfulness comes [only] from his calm and devotion to the martial art. Of course, this means we narrow it down to that specific definition of the monk (one which I not necessarily agree on, but that's another issue).
Isn't it true that lawfulness not only resides in spiritual beliefs (under which I would grade your remark about monks) but also in actions and the possible consequences of those actions? Wouldn't a lawful character question not only his own beliefs, but also the beliefs of the one he hangs around with? We can hardly judge the actions of a thieving guild as lawful, and I think judging beliefs makes the matter even worse. In my opinion, a true, calm and devoted as you say, monk would not affiliate himself with thieves. His ethical ideas of the world wouldn't allow him to, simply because their ideas differ to much from his.

The explanation I've given you might be bit vague, but let me give you clearer example of what I'm implying: I think the unlikelihood of Keldorn and Viconia getting married would be a suitable comparison to 'monk' Yoshimo allowing himself to be associated with the underground thieving network of Renal Bloodscalp.

[Scarab]

Regarding the stance of a monk and ethics. I'm not sure about a D&D monk, but I can speak about REAL buddhist monks. They wouldn't CARE about a thief's activities, a thief is as a thief is. They are as they are, and that's that.

There is a famous buddhist story about a master that lived in an empty house. A thief came into the house one night looking for spoils. The monk found him and offered him a candle to help him look around in the dark. The thief was taken back by this guy and said "perhaps you don't realize that I am a thief and I wish to rob you" The monk replied "oh, that's no matter, everyone has to be something. Just make sure you're a good thief and don't get caught! Now.. let's see what we can find for you here in the dark." Of course the monk didn't own anything, except his blanket and candle. He gave the blanket to the thief and then told him to say thank you and be sure to close the door on his way out since it was so cold outside.

SO, you can see that a monk does not hold treasures, so he doesn't worry about the thief. He sees other people being robbed and thinks, "well that's how the world works, riches are robbed by thieves." he wouldn't PERSONALLY steal anything, since he doesn't really CARE about material items.

Now if you want to talk about christian-type monks, then I'd say they would follow more of the lawful evil alignment since they would appear to do what is "right," but at the same time there would be tons of deception and bribery on the side..cover-ups.. sexual scandals.. etc.

For a buddhist type monk character, there is no "right" or "wrong".. there just IS. Sure, there are certain things the monk won't do, but it is simply a matter of diverting energy away from their focus on spirituality. Like celibacy, the monk doesn't see sex as "wrong".. he just sees it as a distraction, so he doesn't wish to take part. He doesn't attack other people for non-celibacy, they are as they are.

just my 2c

scarab