Pookey Rocks

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Mild Weimer-mod spoilers...
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If you get the Sola mod, Jan gets a familiar...

[ 06-26-2004, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: Illumina Drathiran'ar ]

[SixOfSpades]

Originally sort-of posted by LennonCook: "Any class gets a familiar" = First and foremost, I'm going to agree with Master Rahl has said - that a familiar in literature is always a magic-user only thing. But, I would realy like to take this a step further than what the game has - a familiar is usually a grand thing that a spell caster earns. This, to me, suggests that it should be powerful, and that it should be more powerful than is suggested by a level one spell. Infact, I would make it such that a familiar is not a spell at all, rather a quest of some kind - possibly an extention to the Mage stronghold.

I agree with Find Familiar being raised above a puny Level 1 spell, with at least 5 scrolls of it scattered about the place. I would exalt it up to, say, Level 7, with scrolls of it being precious and rare. As for having it contingent on the Mage stronghold....I agree with you in spirit, but as the Mage stronghold itself has some issues to be worked out (for instance, Fenris Melkior never got it because he accurately roleplayed his alignment and showed those sanctimonious Knights of Solamnia what to go do with themselves), I'd like Familiars to be a bit more accessible.
As for any class getting a Familiar, I'm going to stand by that idea. Does the idea of a Ranger and his Wolf stir no ideal of romance within you? How about a Thief instructing his Rat to enter a home through the drainpipe to open a locked window from the inside? How about a Fighter tossing Lilarcor or Ras into the air to battle by his side for a while? A Cavalier forming a bond of brotherhood with his valiant steed? (Okay, so BG can't handle Horses, that ain't my fault.) As far as I can tell, the only class for having a Familiar doesn't make good roleplaying sense is the Cleric, since their Holy Symbol serves a rather similar purpose, and perhaps also the Wizard Slayer.

"Cast the spell, game looks at all these things" - This is, although a good idea, to my knowledge completely unfeasable in the Infinity Engine.

I was thinking of something along the lines of the way Spell Immunity was implemented: Cast the spell, get a choice of 8 things. Or perhaps Wish would be a better parallel, since it looks the caster's stats.

I would like to see a familiar as a legndary creature - a Phoenix, a Unicorn, rather than a cat or a ferret.

Cats and Ferrets are all well and good for the more mundane tradesmen of the adventuring sphere, such as Thieves and Warriors. The more exotic beasts--for example, Golems and Demons--would naturally fall to the Wizards.

"Familiar dies, you don't loose CON, but loose XP for things" Also uncodable, unfortunately. However, as an alternative, I suggest that ... you cannot get it back.

Well, I would doubt its uncodability, but of course I'm saying that sight unseen, so I'll have to take your word for it.

How about something like the following:
1) After the PC hits 1 million EXP, they recieve (probably through a specific quest) a scroll customized to their class and alignment. (For a total of 10 classes x 3 alignments = 30 scrolls)
2) Casting the scroll causes a blurry shape (Air Elemental) to appear in the distance and approach you. Before you can clearly identify its shape, it calls out to you--it wants to know what it is. Your conversation response will determine the form of your Familiar. (Each of the 30 Familiars spawned by the 30 scrolls will have a unique set of conversation responses. For example, a Neutral Druid might see a Bear, a Spider, a Troll, or a Bird.)
3) At the time you cast the spell, the Familiar checks the PC's level and chooses the appropriate "level" of Familiar to become (similar to the way that NPCs adjust themselves to the average party level when they first join). For example, Evil Wizards would have the "You look like a Demon from here," conversation response, which could get them anything from an Imp to a Baalor.

Note that saving the Find Familiar scroll for later, in order to get a really good Familiar, naturally implies a considerable wait, during which the PC's Alignment might change. What happens if a PC Fighter recieves the scroll when he's Chaotic Good, what happens if he reads it after becoming Neutral Evil? Complications, complications.

[ 06-27-2004, 01:49 AM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

[LennonCook]

Those definately sound like good ideas and now that you mention it I do definately like the idea of another class' animal companion [img]smile.gif[/img] But one little change may make it more codable, and more fitting with the spirit of the game (although not it's implementation) - a familiar is earned rather than cast. The familiar comes to the person, not the other way around. And rather than an Air Elemental being talked to, how about you find a familiar at a certain time (perhaps as a random encounter?), and you get to "Accept or Reject" it? To use your example, an Evil Wizard might find an Imp, and kill it/torture it/ignore it, and might later find a Balor and attempt to bind it to himself. A Ranger on the other hand, might find an injured wolf in the woods, and may put it out of it's misery or try to nurse it back to health. This would solve the problem of alignment changes, too - if you change alignment, your familiar might not like how you're treating it anymore, and leave you.

[Imrahil]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: As for any class getting a Familiar, I'm going to stand by that idea. Does the idea of a Ranger and his Wolf stir no ideal of romance within you? How about a Thief instructing his Rat to enter a home through the drainpipe to open a locked window from the inside? How about a Fighter tossing Lilarcor or Ras into the air to battle by his side for a while? A Cavalier forming a bond of brotherhood with his valiant steed?

The only 2 here that I'd agree with are the Ranger & his Wolf (the closest approximation being the Beastmaster having the Find Familiar ability) & the Cavalier & his horse (which, IIRC, was implemented in PnP, but as you said, wouldn't work in game).

The others, though, come down to "just 'cause you can communicate with it doesn't make it a familiar." I think of a familiar as a 2-way communication, where the Mage is able to see out the familiar's eyes & they both gain benefits. A Thief & his Rat is just a guy with a neat pet by comparison & practically anyone can have Ras dance for them.

Cats and Ferrets are all well and good for the more mundane tradesmen of the adventuring sphere, such as Thieves and Warriors. The more exotic beasts--for example, Golems and Demons--would naturally fall to the Wizards.

I tend to think of familiar-like creatures being the Harry Potter type creatures - owl, cat, rat/ferret, with Imp & Pseudo-Dragon being the exotic ones. You can summon a more powerful demon to serve you for a time, but not for the lifetime of service that goes along with a familiar.

As far as building a Golem, that would make for a cool add-on to the Planar Sphere - after all, you already build one - getting it to follow you around shouldn't be any more difficult that changing the item files for the Clay Golem Manual.

1) After the PC hits 1 million EXP, they recieve (probably through a specific quest) a scroll customized to their class and alignment. (For a total of 10 classes x 3 alignments = 30 scrolls) 2) Casting the scroll causes a blurry shape (Air Elemental) to appear... 3) At the time you cast the spell, the Familiar checks the PC's level and chooses the appropriate "level" of Familiar to become...

I like the idea in general, but I'd limit it to Mages (including Sorcerers), Druids, Rangers, Barbarians, & maybe Bards & Paladins. Fighters, Clerics, Thieves, & Monks seem too un-arcane (er... close enough [img]smile.gif[/img] ) to ever have more than just a pet.

There also need to be some serious downsides to any class's familiar getting killed to make the "no Familiar" option seem somewhat appealing.

- Imrahil

[Cerek the Barbaric]

I like the idea of Rangers having a familiar/pet. I also think a Druid should definitely have the chance to gain a familiar. I'm not as convinced that a barbarian should be able to get one. Historically (in the game anyway), barbarians have depended solely on their own physical abilities to meet any challenge.

I can actually accept a Wizard Slayer getting a familiar - especially one that either increased his/her Magic Resistance OR could Dispel Magic.

While our entire PnP group agreed that familiars as written by Gygax were useless and a far greater hazard than boon, I did create a Chaotic Good mage specifically for the purpose of gaining a pseudo-dragon as a familiar/pet. However, I did NOT gain him through the spell. He is simply a very close pet. I don't gain any benefits from him, other than his surprise attacks on enemies.

Come to think of it, a pseudo-dragon would be a great familiar for a Wizard Slayer, since they can go Invisible and attack with a poison sting (which would eliminate any further spellcasting).

I really liked the "special" familiars (pseudo-dragon, faire dragon, imps, mephits, etc) and I think these are the types of animals that should be available.

I do like the idea of wolves or bears for rangers and druids, but I don't see any real justification for clerics, fighters, or thieves to have them. Bards - maybe.

Well, I look forward to seeing what the two of you come up with for the mod.

[Black Baron]

Maybe NWN familiar system should be implemented? Just tone it down a bit, and do not allow to change familiars. After all familiar can gain exp, since that it is above average in intellect.

[Dragonshadow]

My familier helped me finish ToB. invsibility on all of us and we could sneak

TOB SPOILERS
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Into the monk's stronghold and live.

[Hank Parsons]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: a pseudo-dragon would be a great familiar for a Wizard Slayer, since they can go Invisible and attack with a poison sting (which would eliminate any further spellcasting).

Wizard Slayers are not fond of anyone who casts Invisible.

Pseudo-dragons are fic.historically the companions of spellcasters. I would think a Wizard Slayer is a Pseudo-Dragon Slayer.

[SixOfSpades]

Yeah....I'm not too sure just what kind of creature a Wizard Slayer would befriend on that level, that would fit his persona. A Golem would be nice, what with their Magic Resistance, but the fact that they're created by Wizards pretty much tears that idea. Same goes for animated weaponry such as Ras.

[Dundee Slaytern]

A hound.