Samurai kit--opinions wanted

[Butterfingers]

Sepuku!!

EEEEIIIIEEEEEE!! Argh!! **Dies**

[Q'alooaith]

I'd recomend making it a bard subkit.


then you just remove the spellcasting slots, it's got all the racal limits, well not half orc's but bleh..


Mastery in a few weapons, but not others..

To make an item that can be used two handed AND one handed would be a little harder, but still doable, a specail ablity on the weapon, which removes the weapon and then put's a two handed version in your inventory would work nicly, bit of a cheat but possible..

Then you just have to mod all the katana's in the game, but since katana's can't be used two handed anyway.. Maybe a free bonus to single weapon style, which suit's far better..

Then you could add in two handed dai katana's... Unless you want to mod all the one handed weapon's in the game to let them be used two handed as well..

[Armen]

Originally posted by Butterfingers: No. That is a HELM. And the game treats it as such. They provide all sorts of bonuses, from stat increases, to AC, to magic resistance . . . .

i know, i know - i was thinking more of the roleplaying you know?

thinking about the kit it doesn't make any sense to me as anything other than a fighter - i appreciate six's thinking with the level ups and all but rangers mean isolated woodsman for me mainly and samurais are too embedded in society generally - i guess there are masterless wandering types though . . . its a tricky one

i'm not sure about the ranger stealth really - i'm sure everyone in war sneaks about at some point but the sort of stealth that lets you walk right up to people and smack them seems like something special you know?

barbarian definitely not though - no no no

actually cavalier looks good in many ways (slower level ups, lawful, self limited spell selections to mimic 'abilities' . . .)

how cool would BG3/4 be if it was made in an eastern campaign setting?

[LennonCook]

Ok, I thought I posted this before, but apparently not...

1) Six could not make it a Barbarian kit, even if he wanted to. The menus at character creation are hard-coded, as are the files defining certain classes - such as the Barbarian, the Monk, and the Sorcerer. Meaning, Barbarian kits are an impossibility.

2) Two-handed katanas are possible, but would take alot of work. There is a boolean value in each itm file defining whether it is 1 or 2 handed (the 2^nd bit of the long value at offset 0x18), but try this experiment: use your favourite method to alter that bit on any weapon (say, NPSW04.ITM - Valygar's Katana), load it into a game somehow (Shadowkeeper, Console, recruit Valygar, etc.), and attack something with it. Watch your game crash because it doesn't know what to show. The way to fix this is to change the animation for the katanas to something that works as a two-handed animation... and since the two-handed sword BAMs wouldn't fit with a katana, it would mean drawing up all new BAMs...

[Jerr Conner]

I'm saying make the Samurai a Fighter kit then. Samurai seems like something every race should be able to be, IMO.

Or have it a Bard kit...though that has race limitations.

[teardropmina]

my thought, just my thought,

since it'll be a western/fantasy/D&D interpretation (transformation) of Samurai no matter how it's done, and so which class and which race really doesn't matter, as long as Samurai as kit can be blended into the BG world.
We have katana, Kenasi, and Yoshimo in the default SoA already; it seems like Japanese culture is more popular than other Asian cultures in the west. I myself (I'm from Taiwan) would like to see some Chinese knight errant type kit or weapons, but hey, Western fantasy and Chinese wu-xia fantasy are in two different worlds, and I'm sorta glad that it's not re-interpeted in SoA since it'll be tweaked according to the western fantasy perspective.

Personally in the context of SoA, I'd prefer Samurai to be a class of its own, like Barbarian (it seems impossible to create new classes), a special sort of *fighter* but not really a fighter.

[Jerr Conner]

That's a good idea Teardropmina.

Also, if it's it's own Class Kit instead of a Kit to a Class, much like the Barbarian couldn't the Samurai get the Castle?

I really can't see the Samurai living in a Cabin...

[ 04-13-2004, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: Jerr Conner ]

[teardropmina]

Originally posted by Jerr Conner: That's a good idea Teardropmina. Also, if it's it's own Class Kit instead of a Kit to a Class, much like the Barbarian couldn't the Samurai get the Castle? I really can't see the Samurai living in a Cabin...

maybe a new Samurai specific stronghold? a Samurai fortess, and the stronghold quest will be about training and disciplining himself and his pupils. Maybe Monk (or even Kenasi, need class/kit tweaking here) can share the same stronghold.

[LennonCook]

Creating a new class is possible, but it's not possible to blend it in very well with the game - it's impossible to change the menus at character creation. This is also why you can't have more than 9 kits to a class.

[SixOfSpades]

Boy, it's high time I replied to my own topic, huh?

Originally posted by Butterfingers: Stealth is a moot point in Splint. Unless of course, you make a special splint just for the class.

I agree, as the selection of decent Splint (and even Chain) in the game is pretty laughable. But this armor restriction pretty accurately reflects the order of things in, say, The Seven Samurai. Those Samurai actually wearing metal armor (the warlords in the funny helmets) never really hid in any underbrush; no, they sat on their horses, perfectly visible, and gave orders. It was those wearing hardened leather, or no armor at all, who climbed trees or lay down in tall grass to ambush the enemy.

Samurai are expected to be masters of all weapons. I don't think there will be enough skill points to cover all those bases.

Masters of all weapons? I've never heard this. They were supposed to be able to use most weapons competently, but from what I've read (mostly Musashi's A Book of Five Rings), many warriors opted to specialize: Musashi's opponents are described as "A chain-and-sickle fighter," "armed with an eight-foot hexagonal pole," "with his fencing style based on the flickering motion of a swallow's tail," etc. These all sound like specialists to me.

What of the Samurai's nearly supernatural speed? ... Perhaps give them Improved Haste once per day for every 10 levels as a special ability. Something like a Barbarian or Berserker type Rage is needed here for moments of supreme bloodlust, but, I can't think of what it should be exactly.

That sounds good, but remember I don't want to waste the pure Ranger. I'll think on this. Implementing this ability, and certain minor spells, should be pretty balanced by blocking out the rest of their spells.

Originally posted by Odruith: The kit should probably not be a paladin, since Samurai weren't exactly all do-gooders. Though they were lawful.

Being a Paladin (or Ranger) does not automatically restrict the character to a Good alignment, as the class and kit are selected before alignment. The game looks at the alignment restrictions of the specific kit to determine which Alignment buttons are greyed out. I'm allowing both Lawful and Neutral alignments for Samurai, because even though some Samurai turned ronin and even became bandits, there was always Bushido. If they fail to show Bushido, they become Fallen, which sucks for them even more than normal Rangers, as Samurai would definitely get the de'Arnise Keep--no option for regaining Ranger status.

Perhaps you could as they said create your own splint mail and stick it into Ribald's shop? As a Samurai only armour. Or some such, like they did with the Darkest Day samurai kit.

Given the pitiful Splint already in the game (as I mentioned above), this is practically a given. And yes, I should definitely check out TDD's Samurai kit, so I get some more input.

Originally posted by krunchyfrogg: Why are Half-Orcs allowed?

About the races: Kara-Tur is supposed to almost entirely Human in population, with demihumans being practically nonexistent. Therefore, I'm demanding a minimum of 50% Human ancestry. I also refuse to allow Gnomes and Halflings to go running around single-wielding swords taller than they are.

Originally posted by Butterfingers: Also, the game would have to be recoded a bit to allow katanas to be used as two handed swords as well as one handed, changeable on the fly, with different damages as well. A katana held two handed IIRC does 1d12 damage. It's a big long sword. The wakizashi, short as it is, can also be held two handed, for very powerful thrusts. I don't know how to translate this into game, but, the closest I could guess would be backstab like damage.

Yeah, I'd like to do this, but I doubt it's possible, and even if it were I doubt it'd be worth the effort. I'll just add some Tachi (Katana proficiency, but 2-handed, so gets the benefits of any points in 2-Handed Style), also known as Daikatanas, to the game, and be satisfied with the 2x chance of a Critical Hit that Single Weapon gives you.

Originally posted by Armen: thinking about the kit it doesn't make any sense to me as anything other than a fighter - i appreciate six's thinking with the level ups and all but rangers mean isolated woodsman for me mainly and samurais are too embedded in society generally .... i'm not sure about the ranger stealth really - i'm sure everyone in war sneaks about at some point but the sort of stealth that lets you walk right up to people and smack them seems like something special you know?

True, most samurai lived in cities, towns, and castles, but as the culture was so heavily agrarian that nobody was never more than 1/2 a mile from a rice farmer, I think some sort of stealth should be in order. But you're right in that it would be ludicrous to have entire armies of samurai standing in a field and then suddenly disappearing from view--hence the severe penalty to their Stealth.

Originally posted by teardropmina: We have katana, Kenasi, and Yoshimo in the default SoA already;

We have Katanas and Yoshimo, but not I'm not counting Koshi, Xei Win Toh, and Sendai's dude as an adequate representation of Kensai.

.... it seems like Japanese culture is more popular than other Asian cultures in the west. I myself (I'm from Taiwan) would like to see some Chinese knight errant type kit or weapons,

Which is why I've also designed a recruitable Monk NPC, Xuequin Bao by name, who uses Scimitars (when he uses any weapons at all) to inject some proper Chinese flavor to the overall Kara-Turan effect, which heretofore has been exclusively Japanese.

maybe a new Samurai specific stronghold? a Samurai fortess, and the stronghold quest will be about training and disciplining himself and his pupils. Maybe Monk (or even Kenasi, need class/kit tweaking here) can share the same stronghold.

True. Ideally, there should be an "Expanded Athkatla" mod, adding some all-new map areas to the city, including a Kara-Turan District. This would feature a Monastery, run by Master Wu Li, which would become the Stronghold for Monks and Kensai (though they could still choose the Keep if they wanted it).

[ 04-14-2004, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]