2nd Most Powerful Class

[karlosovic]

twisted rune at level 9 ? are you completely mad ?
damn, they're still hard for me after returning from the underdark !

[Rataxes]

In general. Yes, thieves are the definitely the 2nd most effective soloists. An Oil of Speed/Boots of Speed and good Hide in Shadows/Move Silently scores will guarantee victory against any monster lacking the ability to see the invisible, soloing Improved Ilyich is for instance far easier with a thief than with any other character. For those who can see you, well you got traps for those. In ToB, UAI makes them the by far most versatile type of class in the game. Did I mention that the Swashbuckler is (one of the) the best fighter(s) in the game? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Though extraordinary survivalists on their own, they're considerably worse as a member of a party. Several of their special abilities can be simulated by other party members, and they cannot aid the other party members as much as say, a fighter, or a bard, or a cleric, or a mage, or a pally, or just about anyone [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 02-06-2003, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: Rataxes ]

[Butterfingers]

Clerics rule, mages drool!

[Alson]

Originally posted by Butterfingers: Clerics rule, mages drool!

Very mature, Butterfingers! [img]tongue.gif[/img] Don't get me started!

BTW, check your private messages.

[Butterfingers]

Well, if I can't have first place because of how clerics got hosed, I wish to claim second.

Clerics are quite powerful, I assure you, even with out some of their high level abilities or spells like Sticks to Snakes not making it in to the game.

As for me being mature, well, heck. I am now over a half a frigging century old. I have earned to right to be an acerbic mouthy old cuss. **Waggles finger** I refuse to act my age!

[Alson]

Originally posted by Butterfingers: As for me being mature, well, heck. I am now over a half a frigging century old. I have earned to right to be an acerbic mouthy old cuss. **Waggles finger** I refuse to act my age!

LOL!
Now, that was funny.

[605]

Question... what is the difference between a class being 'powerful' and a class being 'overpowered?' I thought I read somewhere how everyone was agreeing that monks were overpowered, but still magic users are assumed to be the most powerful? Is it some measure of how little effort it takes to make monks rock (just level and you get better), and how much mages/sorcs need tweeking and practice with to get to rock (learning spells and how to apply them to situations)? I'm not too clear on this...

and oh yeah, that WAS pretty funny Butterfingers

[ 02-07-2003, 05:16 AM: Message edited by: 605 ]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by 605: Question... what is the difference between a class being 'powerful' and a class being 'overpowered?' I thought I read somewhere how everyone was agreeing that monks were overpowered, but still magic users are assumed to be the most powerful? Is it some measure of how little effort it takes to make monks rock (just level and you get better), and how much mages/sorcs need tweeking and practice with to get to rock (learning spells and how to apply them to situations)? I'm not too clear on this... and oh yeah, that WAS pretty funny Butterfingers

I think the difference is the "risk of danger to life and limb" or how likely it is for you to be killed by the enemy. Mages ARE powerful - especially with a few 9th level spells. The ability to literally Stop Time is very powerful and you can cast several spells before Time "starts back" - however, the monsters or enemy STILL have a chance to either Resist that magic or make a Save for reduced damage. Then they are going to be all over the mage or sorcerer - who has the fewest hit points in the game.

Monks are considered "overpowered" (or "too powerful") because they gain some very strong immunities. After 15th level, certain things simply have NO EFFECT on them at all - and they can walk right through the spells thrown by an enemy mage to engage them hand-to-hand.

Likewise with thieves...many people consider the traps they can set to be "cheesy" because they are so powerful. Like I said in my opening post, I've "won" several battles before the enemy ever got a chance to make a single attack - because the damage from my traps either killed them outright or injured them so badly that the party was able to kill them within two rounds...so they never really have a chance to fight back.

Even though mages and sorcerers have some "killer spells" of their own - very few of them will actually kill the enemy instantly. My traps often will. And even my 24th level Wizard Slayer can't kill a beholder with just 3 hits (unless I got really, really lucky on my attacks).

Hope that helps.