Racial Quota's

[khazadman]

using racial quotas is just another way of saying that the minority is not as good as the white.

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: I agree with Yack, your example ignores a lot MagiK. How do you explain the fact that proportionally much smaller numbers of women and ethnic minorities get good educations and good jobs compared to white men? Are women and ethnic minorities naturally stupid, or lazy? No, the problem is that they don't get the same opportunities. Often they don't apply for these kind of things as it is made clear by the simple appearance of todays student, or employee, that they are not welcome. So this is also done to encourage people to actually apply in the first place. Basically, yes, positive discrimination contradicts the theory of equality, but it is very necessary to keep the same theory in practice. It shouldn't be needed, and it seems unfair on the individual level, but long term and on a macro scale this is necessary.

Barry, this thread is ONLY about the USA. Here in the states anyone can get a decent education...if they work for it. Public education quality varys wildly here but it is available and if a person of any race or sex wants to get to college they can do it. Sometimes its a matter of hard choices but it is true that in the USA ANYONE can succeed.

It took me 35 years to get to college but I do it now in my spare time. (I could have doen it way earlier but ...its all about choices)

[ 05-15-2002, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[caleb]

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: I agree with Yack, your example ignores a lot MagiK. How do you explain the fact that proportionally much smaller numbers of women and ethnic minorities get good educations and good jobs compared to white men? Are women and ethnic minorities naturally stupid, or lazy? No, the problem is that they don't get the same opportunities. Often they don't apply for these kind of things as it is made clear by the simple appearance of todays student, or employee, that they are not welcome. So this is also done to encourage people to actually apply in the first place. Basically, yes, positive discrimination contradicts the theory of equality, but it is very necessary to keep the same theory in practice. It shouldn't be needed, and it seems unfair on the individual level, but long term and on a macro scale this is necessary.

My sister works at a program in her college called "first people" or something like that that gives financial aid to minoritys. When I met these people even though some of them grew up in a predominately white neighborhood and had the same chance to go to good schools in the area they still believed they were some how entitled to it because of the white mans past injustice. So yes these people ARE lazy bitches.

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

Personaly I think it should be survival of the fittest. Poor schools and bad neighborhoods are just a crutch lazy people use so they can make society at large feel guilty and give them a free ride. Unless you are born with down syndrome or some other mentaly crippling disease you should get off your lazy A$$ and learn something when you go to school. Almost all people are born with a fully functioning brain and are able to learn. If a chimp can learn to speak with sighn language then human beings should be able to pass an entrace exam and not have it graded on a racial curve. Then again , maybe the sterio types are all true and if everyone was graded on a level playing field certain races would fail the tests and contiue to rot in their own failure.

[Grand-Ranger]

Caleb does have a point to a certain degree. Minoritys take advandge of anything they can get, not meaning to sound bias. Its a common thing to hear.

Take Jesse Jackson and his followers for instance. He sues anybody who he thinks he can twsit tehre words around enough to sound racist.

Its really ridiculos.

As for the first question, I think its whos best fit for the job. Who cares if there is a shortage of Asains or what have you, thats totaly irrelivant to anything.

Well of course if you do have a shortage of a ethnic people then you have people like Jessy Jackson, witch brings us back to my first point.

[caleb]

Speaking of Jesse Jackson... I think people like him are the reason this type of mind set continues because he convinces people they are getting a raw deal and to raise hell about it. This was good in the past when they WERE getting a raw deal but they need to see they have more then equal rights now and to shut up already.

[Donut]

Originally posted by Grand-Ranger: Take Jesse Jackson and his followers for instance. He sues anybody who he thinks he can twsit tehre words around enough to sound racist.

Well he certainly seems to have got to you! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Hmmm we seem to have gotten off track here...I was pretty much tlaking about school admittance.

In the name of "Student Diversity" schools have been taking less than qualified people ahead of kids who managed to get better grades and who deserved to continue their education due to their hard work and their success at becomming nearly ideal students. Instead of taking these more qualified students the schools are admitting less qualified or even UNqualified students because they want the federal $$$$ that go along with a "diverse ethinic" student body. This is to me as bad a case of discrimination as has ever existed. In the face of limited seats in the school, only the most qualified students should be accepted....In my opinion any way.

[Avatar]

I am sooo with MagiK on this one. I hate it when Oxbridge has to take in students in state schools just to fill their quota, Governments have to have black ministers to qualify equal opportunity %.

RUBBISH! Oh maybe Olympics 100m is racist??? Wake up!

[Barry the Sprout]

Originally posted by MagiK: Barry, this thread is ONLY about the USA. Here in the states anyone can get a decent education...if they work for it. Public education quality varys wildly here but it is available and if a person of any race or sex wants to get to college they can do it. Sometimes its a matter of hard choices but it is true that in the USA ANYONE can succeed. It took me 35 years to get to college but I do it now in my spare time. (I could have doen it way earlier but ...its all about choices)

I am talking about the US MagiK. It is simply not true that anyone can get an education if they work for it. A lot of people have to work a lot harder than others to overcome years of prejudice and economic discrimination. So they can't afford to go to the same schools, they can't get into debt to do so, they have to work to support a family or simply they don't want to go to a school where they believe themselves not welcome due to a lack of minority students. I stand by my claim that the education system is still inherently racist, and the figures seem to prove it. Positive discrimination, whilst a philosophical contradiction, is necessary to overcome this for now. Azred - I don't think this is a permanent thing, and I don't think it is likely to become so. You see the opposition to it now... I am suprised it has survived this long.

And Avatar, Oxbridge is not elitist? The stats imply that it is as there is a lack of state school people both applying there and succeeding to get in. Why is this? People in state schools don't receive as good an education as private school people, because they can't pay for it. So what seems more logically possible? Poor people are naturally less intelligent, or that poor people can't afford the top of the profession in teaching and all the resources that come with it.

My final point is just to aska few of you guys to take a different look at this just briefly. A lot has been said along the lines of "why do we white males have to be deprived because these people are black/yellow/women/gay/lesbian/dwarf/bagpipe players/etc...". Well, try this one - "why do the other people have to be deprived because of your advantages, they may be just as intelligent and able but not had the opportunity to show it.". And if my statement is just liberal whining then surely your first statement is just conservative whining. Just a thought...