05-12-2003, 04:36 PM | #11 | |
40th Level Warrior
Join Date: July 11, 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
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On the proof that 2nd hand smoke will kill you and the demand for proof, I must say that Penn & Teller know about as much about science as they do about being polite or having a meaningful dialogue between themselves. Seriously, though, in court the defense will demand you prove that you were in proximity to my smoke, that it actually was inhaled by you, and that my smoke particles were the actual cause of the harm. If my smoke particles were combined with dust, pollen, benzene, PAH, formaldehyde, asbestos, CK Be, cookout grill smoke, and/or fart odor particles, you must separate out the relative percentages of each and how it harmed you. The plaintiff will argue since you were near me once upon a time at a rock concert when I smoked a cigarette, I should buy you a new home and yacht. Because absolute 100% proof is VERY SCARCE indeed, we trust the jury to sort it out. Thus, I haven't joined this science debate because I well know that it just results in each side trotting out info espewed by folks who are funded by those with political agendas. So, I use COMMON SENSE to tell me that cigarette smoke can hurt people -- based on the notion that while dense smoke (as magic mentioned) can really harm you, not-so-dense smoke still harms you some. I only need look at my watering eyes in a smokey room to know the truth of this. However, private places of business are privately owned. Period. I should not be able to force your bar to ban cigarettes any more than I should be able to force my local Jewel grocery to carry my favorite brand of eco-friendly dishwashing soap. It is in fact more logical to ban smoking OUTSIDE than it is to ban it in privately-owned bars, as non-smokers can't *choose* to never venture outside. You could also do it through land-use and zoning regulations -- which would be done at the local level where we could all have a voice on the issue. (And, it is actually laws occuring at the local level that are being passed.) However, an ABSOLUTE BAN in incredulous. The government is simply stepping on our toes too close. Next it will be banning noxious perfumes. Now, while I might like to see this happen to some of the old biddies in my office, it is certainly too far. |
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05-12-2003, 04:36 PM | #12 | |
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05-12-2003, 04:37 PM | #13 | |
Galvatron
Join Date: January 22, 2002
Location: california wine country
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“This is an impressive crowd, the haves and the have mores. <br />Some people call you the elite. <br />I call you my base.”<br />~ George W. Bush (2000) |
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05-12-2003, 04:38 PM | #14 |
Ironworks Moderator
Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Midlands, South Carolina
Age: 48
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My grandmother died of Lung Cancer, due to smoking. I learned in this whole ordeal that women are more likely to develop lung cancer than men are, due to genetics that I really do not understand well enough to explain...
One good thing came of her death... her son, my father, stopped smoking the day she died. The change in his health is very noticeable. Bottom line...smoking is kinda like suicide. Second-hand smoke could be considered involuntary manslaughter!
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05-12-2003, 04:38 PM | #15 | |
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Join Date: February 24, 2003
Location: Indiana
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Any toxicologist will tell you that the toxin is in the dosage. Too much potassium in your body will kill you, as will too little. You need a certain amount to operate properly. I am not saying that you need second-hand smoke, but that it is not reasonable to assume that a low dosage is also risky, just less so. |
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05-12-2003, 04:44 PM | #16 | |
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05-12-2003, 04:45 PM | #17 | |
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05-12-2003, 04:46 PM | #18 | |
Apophis
Join Date: July 10, 2001
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[ 05-12-2003, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: WillowIX ] |
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05-12-2003, 04:48 PM | #19 | |
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05-12-2003, 04:49 PM | #20 | |
Galvatron
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“This is an impressive crowd, the haves and the have mores. <br />Some people call you the elite. <br />I call you my base.”<br />~ George W. Bush (2000) |
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