04-25-2002, 02:06 PM | #11 | |
Elite Waterdeep Guard
Join Date: March 13, 2001
Location: Certainly not in England
Age: 21
Posts: 33
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But I agree with what you're saying here. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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04-25-2002, 02:08 PM | #12 | |
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04-25-2002, 02:11 PM | #13 | |
Elite Waterdeep Guard
Join Date: March 13, 2001
Location: Certainly not in England
Age: 21
Posts: 33
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Religion is about controlling that instinct. Concious choice overriding primal compulsion. Religions promote peace, legal systems, welfare, care for others, abstract thought and incredible amounts of artistic creation. (Think Michelangelo, the Pyramids, Chinese Culture, Handels Messiah etc.) Seems like Religion is very beneficial to me - EVEN ONES I BELIEVE ARE WRONG I SEE SOME BENEFIT WITHIN.
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04-25-2002, 02:12 PM | #14 |
Elite Waterdeep Guard
Join Date: March 13, 2001
Location: Certainly not in England
Age: 21
Posts: 33
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Aw shoot. I'm on a different computer and forgot to change my Login! Ooops. Yorick here....
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04-25-2002, 03:00 PM | #15 | |
Drow Priestess
Join Date: March 13, 2001
Location: a hidden sanctorum high above the metroplex
Age: 54
Posts: 4,037
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Quote:
When you look at it, faith is child-like in its nature, because you accept that what someone else is telling you as truth (almost all young children believe that everything you tell them is true). This is especially true for faith relative to religion, because at first your belief--your faith--must be the "accepting" kind of faith that children have. I think some people's problem with religion is not that some periods in religious history are less-than-perfect or that they have had some negative experiences with those who are more zealous in their evangelizing, but that they have a hard time "unlearning" their status as an adult and reverting, at least partially, to a more child-like nature. The fundamental key to religion is that faith is so simple; it takes no effort. Only as you begin to experience God/the Divine for yourself can you begin to accumulate a backlog of "experimental data" with which your faith gets strengthened. Oh, and by debates like the one that has been raging here.... For the record, no, I am not religious; I belong to no church, practice no religion, etc. but I used to. I have studied theology, mythology, and psychology, though; make of that what you will.
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Everything may be explained by a conspiracy theory. All conspiracy theories are true. No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna. |
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04-25-2002, 04:18 PM | #16 | ||
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You disrespected my views by taking my post and twisting It deliberately to fit in with your own beliefs and views on what I had written, without even trying to deal with the issues it raised.[/QUOTE]I did it to show you how it felt. Wasn't a nice thing was it? Just remember you have made insulting generalisations repeatedly.[/QUOTE]It seems to me, Yorick? That your name is flame bait in itself. Calling yourself "Knobhead_the_Pommie" is not exactly very pleasant or respectful towards English people now is it? I believe that you are a hypocrite, you hold double standards. Its perfectly fine for you to flame me in the name of faith, but should I point out materiel facts about faith to you, you simply *cannot* handle them and have to result to *childish* name calling & flames. Two wrongs don’t make a right y’know. Quote:
Religion is about controlling that instinct. Concious choice overriding primal compulsion. Religions promote peace, legal systems, welfare, care for others, abstract thought and incredible amounts of artistic creation. (Think Michelangelo, the Pyramids, Chinese Culture, Handels Messiah etc.) Seems like Religion is very beneficial to me - EVEN ONES I BELIEVE ARE WRONG I SEE SOME BENEFIT WITHIN.[/QUOTE]Religions have also created: The inquisition, the crusades, the current situation in northern island, the dark ages, the paedophile abuse scandal in the Catholic Church, Burning heretics, Intolerance, genocide, conversions at the point of a blade, raceism & just about every other bad thing you can think of. Have you ever read Machiavelli’s “The Prince”? You would find out a lot about religion from his writing I believe. |
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04-25-2002, 04:22 PM | #17 | |
Manshoon
Join Date: October 2, 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 57
Posts: 202
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From Magik:
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I would submit, though, that science is at least based on factual evidence, whereas religion cannot be so supported. Like as has been said so by others here, religion and faith are intensely individual experiences, which are different from person to person. Also, your beliefs can't be supported by any sort of experimental proofs like we use in science to validate things. I could say that I have been touched by the hand of God and that I am the new Messiah, too, although it wouldn't make it so, unless I could prove it by walking on water, or turning water to wine or somesuch (in front of people, so it can be verified). That's not to criticize or invalidate people's personal beliefs in any way. Everyone is entitled to believe as they please - this is a free country after all. I would perhaps be more comfortable if people were not so outspoken in voicing their religious beliefs, or pushing them on others, though. Perhaps religion should be thought of as a private matter, and not spoken of in polite company, much like sex is. After all, who wants to hear about what you and your significant other do in the bedroom at night? Most people, even your friends, would get revolted at the thought. It should be that way with religion, too.
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\"You see things; and you say \'Why?\' But I dream things that never were; and I say \'Why not?\'\"<br />-George Bernard Shaw<br /><br />\"Men take only their needs into consideration never their abilities.\"<br />-Napoleon Bonaparte |
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04-25-2002, 04:27 PM | #18 | |
40th Level Warrior
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i guess i'm just a non-believer, sorry about that
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04-25-2002, 04:35 PM | #19 |
John Locke
Join Date: February 7, 2002
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Age: 35
Posts: 8,985
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I'm also a non believer like Jonny, and I agree with him. If there is a God, what is he doin? If he is all powerful then why doesn't he try and help us mere mortals??
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04-25-2002, 04:38 PM | #20 | |
Fzoul Chembryl
Join Date: July 26, 2001
Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 1,781
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Quote:
Letting people do as they please doesn't always serve the interests of the greater whole. You make points about irresponsible individuals above, however, environmentalism is far more than what you have presented here. We have a planet. Just the one. It behoves us all to take care of what we have, and not wantomly use up the parts of it that are irreplaceable, or that will take so long to be replaced, that they might just as well be, for our purposes. Letting people 'do as they please' often spoils it for everyone else, or has the potential to do so. Take overfishing, just as an example. You have the large factory ships, which basically clean out the ocean in the areas they fish. It's not sustainable, and it's not serving the interests of the majority. Short term gains for some means long term losses for many more, not just consumers (who are losing some degree of choice), but those whose livelihoods depend on fishing. There are men out there who have been fishermen all their lives, and their fathers before them, often back through many generations. These guys are out of a job, in communities where other work generally isn't available. It's tragic. I'm not advocating illegal action, particularly, to right 'wrongs'. It is preferable that steps be taken via the proper political processes. But when politicians refuse to listen, some take things into their own hands. (I personally am not in favour of actions which will hurt or maim other human beings. However, it is a fact that sometimes it has been the only way that an issue has received attention. ) It is just your opinion that 'some scientists' are using scare tactics to convince people of this and that. Whether or not that is true, what is certainly true is that there are a number of large campaigns going on in the states to play down the environmental problems currently facing us, and to discredite environmental agencies. (See Exxon's 10 year campaign to convince American's that humans have played no part in global warming). Environmentalism is very much against the interests of many large and extremely powerful multi/transnationals. They have spent and are spending large amounts of money to put forward a viewpoint that is advantageous to their interests, namely, that we don't have major problems on the environment front, and that business as usual should be allowed to take place without hinderance. I would agree that environmental organisations tend to present situations in the worst possible light. In this, they follow the example of the media generally. What grabs people's attention in this day and age are extreme situations, presented as such. That's what sells papers, gets people watching tv (thus consuming ads) and so forth. If environmentalists present their case in anything less than the strong terms used elsewhere, then they have absolutely no chance whatsoever of being heard. I think this says more about the nature of the society we live in than anything else, to be frank. As with anything else, you will find environmental 'extremists'. But as you have asked for religion not to be judged on the actions of 'a few fanatics', I would ask that you extend the same courtesy to those concerned about the environment. Most of us are just ordinary people who care about the world we live in. What's so bizarre about that? [This originally posted on the original thread, - I didn't notice the new one at first.... Comes of not reading the whole thread before being moved to post!! [img]smile.gif[/img] ) [ 04-25-2002, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Silver Cheetah ]
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