Taking out the trash in Yemen!!!

Larry, they were not going to stand in front of tanks...they were going to place themselves in strategic places inside Baghdad. So that any air strikes or attacks would endanger them. Apparently assuming the US would not attack if they had to shoot US citizens.

[Attalus]

Originally posted by MagiK: Larry, they were not going to stand in front of tanks...they were going to place themselves in strategic places inside Baghdad. So that any air strikes or attacks would endanger them. Apparently assuming the US would not attack if they had to shoot US citizens.

Hmm, if I know the guys that fly the F-15's and A/F-18's, that would be a dangerous assumption to make. "Now targeting liberals. Request pemission to strafe." LOL, j/k

[Dreamer128]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Dreamer128: I wouldn't have a problem with it, if all the innocent bystanders got the same choice. Unfortunatly, nations such as Isreal don't seem to have much of a problem with blowing up an intire city block just to get a single Hamas leader... nor do the Taliban and apparantly.. neither do we. Don't get me wrong.. if it was up to me, all those bastards would be rotting in jail right now (if only it was that simple ). I'm just trying to keep an eye on the border that separates us from the terrorists.

Not to come off hostile here, but I want to point out that when the Israelis move their tanks in, everyone sees them coming and either runs and or chooses to stand and fight, so if there are casualties most are victims of their own choices. [/QUOTE]I don't want to hammer on a quite meaningless point here, but the Isrealis do have the nasty habbit of launching air attacks on the positions of Hamas (and other terrorist) members. Often killing large numbers of civilians.

Originally posted by Dreamer128: I don't want to hammer on a quite meaningless point here, but the Isrealis do have the nasty habbit of launching air attacks on the positions of Hamas (and other terrorist) members. Often killing large numbers of civilians.

Yeah their Attack Helo's rocket attacks are not as accurate as some other weapons systems. I still would bet that fewer civilians are being killed on the Palistinian side than are being hit on the Israeli side. The precentages are probably waaay in the Israeli court, by that I mean % civilians injured vs % military or PLO/Hamas/terrorist people hurt.

[Thoran]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: This is a fine and moral sentiment, Dreamer. It's why we have such a high standard of proof ("Beyond a reasonable doubt") in our criminal courts in the U.S. But, it doesn't apply to war. By the very nature of war, innocents will die. Seriously - most people on a battlefield are there because the rich and powerful guy sitting atop his horse in the back told them to be there. At least, that's what I've learned from years of fantasy RP. War is a struggle for survival by one group against another. Concern for the innocence of a single individual is irrelevant. And, I'll note that where Al Queda is concerned, the members did actually *choose* to join a radical group, and weren't exactly pressed into service by a draft or anything. Making them actually somewhat more culpable than in your more average warlike situations. Finally, as to your "suspected" language, did you read the previous posts? This guy was a top Bin Laden lover. The car had in it: 2 top Al Queda operatives, 4 low-level Al Queda thugs, and explosives. What gives? Does having a bodyguard with you mean no one can attack you?

I would add that if Al Queda got a whiff that we wouldn't attack them if they had innocent civillians with them... you'd soon find them surrounded by innocent civilians at all times. Time and time again these radicals have shown a willingness to hide behind the skirts of the innocent. From Saddam placing C&C facilities in Hotel buildings, and AA installations in residential neighborhoods... to wanted Palestinians taking over the Church of the Nativity. To them, human life is only as valuable as the PR the ending of it can get them. They blab about how important their Islamic peoples are to them, yet they will sacrifice their people EN MASSE for the chance to kill a single American. I'm starting to wonder if they really worship CNN these days... because they certainly don't follow the teachings of the Koran, and they'll sacrifice the lives or their own people to get a chance at a "Breaking News" alert.

The more fear we put into the top Al Queda operatives, the less effective they'll be... and the less people will die. I'd rather risk being wrong and killing an innocent (who just happens to be surrounded by terrorists) than to see dozens of innocents die through our inaction.

It's also good to see the CIA is finally getting their head out of the collective arse. We need to hit these guys where it hurts, and that means going after top guys and the money. (I'd like to see some Suadi mansions blown up too... that would get the point across to the idle rich over there that they are NOT safe just because someone else is doing their dirty work)

[Steve Fox]

I think morelly it was wrong to do it,but what the hell I can't spell morelly so I guess morels are firmly out the window and they diserved it anyway!

Originally posted by Thoran: I would add that if Al Queda got a whiff that we wouldn't attack them if they had innocent civillians with them... you'd soon find them surrounded by innocent civilians at all times. Time and time again these radicals have shown a willingness to hide behind the skirts of the innocent. From Saddam placing C&C facilities in Hotel buildings, and AA installations in residential neighborhoods... to wanted Palestinians taking over the Church of the Nativity. To them, human life is only as valuable as the PR the ending of it can get them. They blab about how important their Islamic peoples are to them, yet they will sacrifice their people EN MASSE for the chance to kill a single American. I'm starting to wonder if they really worship CNN these days... because they certainly don't follow the teachings of the Koran, and they'll sacrifice the lives or their own people to get a chance at a "Breaking News" alert.

Another little tidbit that people forget. Remember those AA units in Iraq, the ones that made the really pretty lightshows in the sky? All those pretty lights going up to try to hit planes? Those things come down. Want to guess what happens to the civilians living where they come down at? Just thought I should point that little detail out.

[Morgeruat]

that and most people don't realise we've been bombing the AA sites almost continuously since the gulf war (maybe a one or two week break here and there), it doesn't make the front page news, and I wasn't even aware of it until 99 when I went to Kuwait (military service)

Originally posted by Morgeruat: that and most people don't realise we've been bombing the AA sites almost continuously since the gulf war (maybe a one or two week break here and there), it doesn't make the front page news, and I wasn't even aware of it until 99 when I went to Kuwait (military service)

Yeh happens when the stupid bastiges decide to turn their radars on and point them at the planes patrolling the no fly zone.

[Night Stalker]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Morgeruat: that and most people don't realise we've been bombing the AA sites almost continuously since the gulf war (maybe a one or two week break here and there), it doesn't make the front page news, and I wasn't even aware of it until 99 when I went to Kuwait (military service)

Yeh happens when the stupid bastiges decide to turn their radars on and point them at the planes patrolling the no fly zone. [/QUOTE]Actually, they've pretty much learned not to light up their radars. HARMs are really NOT fair [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] ! Every time they turn 'em one .... BOOM! ... Still, they do try every now and then. I've seen some kinda comical (OK morbidly comical) things about this. *shakes head* Silly .... Silly people. They also try firing with out radar sometimes. [img]graemlins/nono.gif[/img] Silly .... Silly people .... those old Soviet SAMs aren't that effective with the radars on (thanks to our counter measures), let alone off. SAMs just have this way of really annoying pilots for some reason .... BOOM! Silly .... Silly .... [img]graemlins/nono.gif[/img] *shakes head* [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 11-06-2002, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Night Stalker ]