Virginia bans homosexual civil unions

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

It's in bad taste to insult a group of people like Meg did. But I think it's also in bad taste to repeatedly and publicly call for the banning of a member, especially when the situation has been diffused. Can you please take this up in PMs and get back on topic?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Dirty Meg: And no, a society shouldn't have the right to decide 'what values they wish to encourage'. A society might encourage the value that Christians are superior to Jews or that Whites are superior to blacks. What harm does it do to you if a man marries another man or a woman marries another woman?

So, you do not believe in democracy then. What do you advocate? Dictatorship? Who's morals and laws do we have to live under Meg? Yours? Are you to be the dictator who forces society to live under morals and laws it doesn't want to?

I repeat, a society has the right to encourage the values it wishes to see perpetrated, if it believes it is for the mental, social and physical health of the said society. DEMOCRACY.

If the society are deciding that Jews and whites are superior, the onus is on EDUCATING the society as to why this is not so, not removing the right for self determination.

The simple fact is, if we were all gay, the human race would die out. Simple. If society wants to perpetuate, it has the right to determine what values enable or prohibit perpetuation.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar: It's in bad taste to insult a group of people like Meg did. But I think it's also in bad taste to repeatedly and publicly call for the banning of a member, especially when the situation has been diffused. Can you please take this up in PMs and get back on topic?

It hasn't been diffused. The post hasn't been modified or editted. No apology either. The insult still stands.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Then I'm requesting that the thread be closed. So much for anyone taking the higher road here. It's no longer a debate. A shame we couldn't solve this like grownups.

[Yorick]

Or we could have a simple apology and an editted post and then move on.

[Dirty Meg]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Dirty Meg: Perhaps my remarks were crass but being crass is infinitely preferable to restricting individual freedom based on petty-minded prejudices.

Nope. Not obvious to me. When pushed you clarified that you were of the opinion my parents were incestuous simply because I hold an opinion different to you.

I repeat, can this person be banned please? [/QUOTE]Ok. I will amend my post...

I would hope that it is obvious to anyone in full possession of their intellectual faculties that the references to inbreeding were not intended seriously.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Dirty Meg: I would hope that it is obvious to anyone in full possession of their intellectual faculties that the references to inbreeding were not intended seriously.

Is this another insult?

Let me give you advice. We are not all of the same culture here on the net. Things like SARCASM can be completely missed. It's really bad form to say things like:

"All Americans are uneducated militant morons!

...... oh only joking.... I wasn't being serious, that should have been obvious."

How? How is it obvious?

Then you further insult with implying only an idiot would take offense. Flamer.

[ 06-08-2004, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Dirty Meg]

Originally posted by Yorick: So, you do not believe in democracy then. What do you advocate? Dictatorship? Who's morals and laws do we have to live under Meg? Yours? Are you to be the dictator who forces society to live under morals and laws it doesn't want to? I repeat, a society has the right to encourage the values it wishes to see perpetrated, if it believes it is for the mental, social and physical health of the said society. DEMOCRACY. If the society are deciding that Jews and whites are superior, the onus is on EDUCATING the society as to why this is not so, not removing the right for self determination. The simple fact is, if we were all gay, the human race would die out. Simple. If society wants to perpetuate, it has the right to determine what values enable or prohibit perpetuation.

In English, it is traditional to construct sentences from more than one word. Please take this into account in future.
You evidently don't know what democracy is. What you are advocating is communism. The advantage of democracy over dictatorship is that we don't have to live under anybody's morals. We can do what we like as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of another human being.
Your last arguement is completely absurd. The same could be said of anybody. If we were all men the human race would become extinct. If we were all bankers the human race would become extinct. Based on your arguement, we should be banning everyone who isn't a hermaphrodite subsistance-farmer. (You are wrong anyway. The human race wouldn't die out if we were all gay. It is theoretically possible to impregnate a women without any male involvement, using the same technique used in cloning.).

[Cloudbringer]

Grr.. I got closed out by the server and had a post all ready to go here...well this is less copiously or brilliantly worded, but here goes;

I'm going to assume for now that Dirty Meg got the message (considering it was posted by two mods and several members). If the issue re-surfaces, we'll deal with it. For now, let's close it and go on.

Yorick, I fully understand and agree- you can't call people incestuous for disagreeing on the topic, heck I'd fit that bill if it were so. But I'd like to see honest debate and discussion continue if people are amenable to being respectful and if not, we can close the thread and or sanction as needed. DM is new to the CE scene and I've given warning on personal and generalized insults so let's move on.


Now, having seen the additional posts since I got locked out... I'm adding this: Yorick and Dirty Meg, please take any personal disagreements to PM. If you'd like to comment on the topic of the thread and not each other, or the supposed parentage or lack of intelligence of the other or implied criticism by the other.. .well you got the idea.. then please go ahead and post on topic.

Illumina has requested the thread be closed and while I'm loathe to close one that's got some respecful discussion and debate going, I won't hesitate to close it if it gets personal, ugly or so off the mark that those who want to discuss the topic are shut out by the in-fighting.

Dirty Meg, one last thing. I realise you are relatively new here, if your post count is any indication, but one hallmark of Ironworks is that we don't go for each other's jugular in a debate and sarcastic personal comments on someone's intelligence or lack thereof aren't common because most people consider them flamebait. So please argue the topic and not the person. Check the sticky threads at the top of the forum index if you need an indication of what's ok and what isn't.

[ 06-08-2004, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]

[Ziroc]

Originally posted by Dirty Meg: I would hope that it is obvious to anyone that the references to inbreeding were not intended seriously. Perhaps my remarks were crass but being crass is infinitely preferable to restricting individual freedom based on petty-minded prejudices.

I think you need to read Ironworks Rules again, Dirty Meg. Even if you didn't mean it, doesn't mean the other party didn't get offended. I know you're new here, so I can let this slide, but you really need to read all the rules. It will save you from things such as this.

http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/noncgi/rules.html


PS: Freedom on a forum only goes so far.