The religious right or left?

[Chewbacca]

Yorick,

So, what? Are you saying that you are allowed to practice hypocrisy because I feel no need to to justify my beliefs to negative skeptism and debasement as well as because I expressed the opinion that the forums may be better off if discussion of religion was curbed.

Curbing religious discussion worked before to bring a respectful tone back to the forums, so logic serves it will work again. Of course, I doubt it will go that far unless Ziroc decides so like he did before.

Regardless, just because I have that opinion doesn't give you free reign to debase, degrade, and misrepresent other beliefs, no matter how much you try to justify/explainify it.


What is wrong with just sticking to describing what makes Christianity so great for you, regardless of differing beleifs? Are you incapable of that?

[Chewbacca]

Yorick,

In several discussions in the past, I have provided an alternative view of Buddhist belief and practice in response to your negative skepticism. Considering this, I see no need to repeat myself again on that particular issue. I assume you must have either rejected or ignored the views I put forth several times before as you continue to toe the same old negative "Buddhism is really about self annihilation not joy & bliss" line that I called you out on originally so long ago. You are certainly free to think what you want about Buddhism, but it is erroneous to advocate your opinions, with you being a non-Buddhist thinker and/or practitioner, as a "true" Buddhist perspective.

[ 11-06-2003, 02:23 AM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: Yorick, In several discussions in the past, I have provided an alternative view of Buddhist belief and practice in response to your negative skepticism. Considering this, I see no need to repeat myself again on that particular issue. I assume you must have either rejected or ignored the views I put forth several times before as you continue to toe the same old negative "Buddhism is really about self annihilation not joy & bliss" line that I called you out on originally so long ago. You are certainly free to think what you want about Buddhism, but it is erroneous to advocate your opinions, with you being a non-Buddhist thinker and/or practitioner, as a "true" Buddhist perspective.

I prefer to take the opinions of numerous Chinese Buddhists who have grown up in the religion and culture, over that of a single American. Ones who have lived it, breathed it. I prefer also to read and understand for myself Buddha's words rather than accept your word as gospel.

I am of the opinion it is YOU who hold an erroneous view. Sorry, but I don't believe you have understood the ideas. Certainly nothing I have read from you on the matter has led me to believe Buddhas assertions are not what I described.

"Life = suffering" says Buddha
"Death brings no escape" says Buddha, "for one remains in the cycle of suffering endlessly."
Solution = no earthly attachments or positives so the resultant negatives are not felt. Eventual result = escape from the Karmic cycle into oblivion. Loss of self, loss of ego, reassimilation into the universe.

Our body reassimilates into the earth, becoming one with it when we die. It is otherwise known as ceasing to exist as a lifeform. So it is with Nirvana. The "joy" is the end of life (which is, as said suffering)

Then there are the two main brances of Buddhism. One, teaches that Buddha put off Nirvana, so he could help others find Nirvana. (For how could he help others if he no longer exists?) The other teaches that he is indeed no longer an entity.

The existence of these divergent strands of Buddhism, is itself further proof that you are incorrect in your assertion that my understanding is erroneous.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: Yorick, So, what? Are you saying that you are allowed to practice hypocrisy because I feel no need to to justify my beliefs to negative skeptism and debasement as well as because I expressed the opinion that the forums may be better off if discussion of religion was curbed. Curbing religious discussion worked before to bring a respectful tone back to the forums, so logic serves it will work again. Of course, I doubt it will go that far unless Ziroc decides so like he did before. Regardless, just because I have that opinion doesn't give you free reign to debase, degrade, and misrepresent other beliefs, no matter how much you try to justify/explainify it. What is wrong with just sticking to describing what makes Christianity so great for you, regardless of differing beleifs? Are you incapable of that?

If you'll notice I have spent much time doing just that. I remember numerous posts of yours attacking Christianity. Is your own medicine bitter to taste now?

[Mouse]

That's quite enough of the personal wrangling. You all know the rules.

Just one small point. Questioning the basis of a belief and asking for clarification of the logic behind a stated position DOES NOT automatically represent "an attack" on that position. If you feel that every time somebody questions your opinion or asks for clarification, you are being personally slighted, then, in my opinion you are far too sensitive to take part in this forum and perhaps your time would be better spent elsewhere.

Neither myself nor the rest of the Mods here are going to spend inordinate amounts of time refereeing spats between supposedly intelligent people. There will be yellow cards and temporary bans if this childishness continues.

You have been warned.

[ 11-06-2003, 06:20 AM: Message edited by: Mouse ]

[Cloudbringer]

Adding my voice here- This topic appears to be on a spiraling path and not in the uphill direction.

Yorick, you know Chewie isn't going to convert to your way of thinking/seeing things by reading this thread and Chewie, you also know that Yorick isn't changing his beliefs or his stand.

I also think you are both fully aware that you don't see eye to eye and have had the same argument or variations on the theme several times before. Getting in the last word does NOT make one right, so give it a rest already! Or take the unending disagreement to personal mail.

This thread has caused a lot of concern and since there are people who would be unhappy at a moratorium on religious topics, it would be nice if you at least give them some respect and avoid the intense one on one disagreements and personal bickering.

[Timber Loftis]

On the notion of "oblivion" as a goal.

See the movie Harvard Man. Then go back through with director's commentary. It's psuedo-autobiographical, and it really messed me up for a while in the middle. The guy truly loses all self and breaks through to the oblivion behind the self. Then come back and we'll talk some real philosophy of the self, and the notion of self, and the formation of self -- all of which can be done using philosophy and/or religion.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: On the notion of "oblivion" as a goal. See the movie Harvard Man. Then go back through with director's commentary. It's psuedo-autobiographical, and it really messed me up for a while in the middle. The guy truly loses all self and breaks through to the oblivion behind the self. Then come back and we'll talk some real philosophy of the self, and the notion of self, and the formation of self -- all of which can be done using philosophy and/or religion.

Thanks mate.. will do.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: Yorick, you know Chewie isn't going to convert to your way of thinking/seeing things by reading this thread and Chewie, you also know that Yorick isn't changing his beliefs or his stand.

As Confucious would say: "The only certainty in life is that nothing is certain."

[ 11-06-2003, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: Yorick, you know Chewie isn't going to convert to your way of thinking/seeing things by reading this thread and Chewie, you also know that Yorick isn't changing his beliefs or his stand.

It is worth noting I am not trying to change other peoples beleif's, especially Yorick's. Thats typically not why I participate in these discussions. My beleifs were debased by being described as "the universe masturbating."

Considering this crude metaphor does nothing to reveal the intellectual and spiritual depth I have found in panthiestic beleif, I offered an alterative, some of my personal perspective. Like I said I did not offer this perspective to prothlysize or debate but merely to represent.

Much like Christian's represented their beliefs back when Christianity was debased and generalized as a cause of guilt. I did not see anyone complaining when the person who made that remark in that thread was called out for it.

Well regardless, I am done here. Sorry that I helped make the moderation neccessary.