Taking out the trash in Yemen!!!

[Ziroc]

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: quote: Originally posted by Ziroc: In wartime, it is kill or BE killed. It sucks, but this is reality. If you were face to face with one of these guys, and you both had a gun--knowing that this guy WILL kill you, would you defend yourself? I would hope so! [img]smile.gif[/img] It's like that, but on a global scale. See, we have been going directly to these people, and taking them out. not an entire city block or something. I agree, killing is horrid, and I wish no one killed anyone, but the facts are, if we don't get them, they WILL get us. No about of security cameras, guards and scanners will keep us safe forever.

In this instance it was by no means kill or be killed. Whether or not the people could have been caught that doesn't change the fact that those soldiers were not in any danger. I understand you meant on a global scale but that doesn't wash for me either. I could understand if we had some kind of magical proof that this would actually work (understand, but maybe not condone). But we really have no idea of whether or not just killing everyone will stop terrorism, and I really don't think it will personally. War is the wrong description for this kind of conflict as it implies the enemy just has to be beaten. We can't beat an ideology on the battlefield, and even if you could what exactly would it say for the supposedly superior ideology that had to resort to force to overcome its enemy?

Some of these people present a threat, but a hell of a lot more people will present a threat if we keep up this kind of attack. It is impossible to kill them all so how on earth do you expect to win this in a conventional "war" sense?[/QUOTE]Well, how are wars won then? We take out enough of the enemy or demoralize them enough to give up. I guess that is what they are doing. Believe me, I know we can't take them all out--we shouldn't. Not ALL of them are hardcore fanatics..

We can go round for round until our faces turn blue, so I am pretty much done with this. You know MY feelings, and I sure know yours! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Ziroc]

Originally posted by Wurm: I would have rather we captured them for only one reason. To torture them to find out everything they knew before killing them. just my 2 cents... Feel free to flame me. I don't get upset over stuff said on the internet [img]smile.gif[/img]

Anyone that flames ya will BURRRRNNNNN [img]smile.gif[/img]

We're having a great debate here! Everyone remember to keep it polite as possible, with no flames or personal attacks. We all have our own views, and we must respect them all (Even when it makes you red-hot mad) [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

[Ziroc]

Originally posted by Attalus: All right, it is getting more interesting. There was a "secondary explosion" after the Hellfire blew them to their afterlife, and they have found traces of bombs and weapons in the car. Not much argument there for the innocents argument. Oh, and it wasn't just a mattter of "we know where they are so let's just go arrest them." It was in a remote, lawless band of mountains far in the backwoods. That was their best shot, and they took it. I'm behind them 100%. They can remove that joke about our agents never getting their man from Entertainment Weekly.

As I knew they were. Anyone that would hang out with the the Top leaders of 'The Base' are just as guilty.. Glad they got them. Maybe they saved a few innocents from being killed on a corner store or bus.

Anyone know what package the Hellfire carries? Is there napalm in it? I was just wondering.

[The Hierophant]

This sounds arrogant and judgmental (and yes, perhaps it is ), but Barry, I think in an historical sense with the 'get to know them before we shoot' ideology you would be one of the few that are killed in their beds before a chance to talk is ever reached. You must prove your strength and formidibility in open battle in order to garner the respect of warriors to a sufficient degree as to warrent peaceful negotiation. 'Going to the people' in this instance simply wouldn't work as the groups involved herein do not want to talk, they do not want to negotiate. All that we can do here is fight, and fight hard . If both 'sides' are destroyed so be it (although more than likely that won't happen).

[Ziroc]

Originally posted by Donut: quote: Originally posted by Ziroc: quote: Originally posted by Hayashi: 6 people died in the car. I hope, for the US's sake, that all 6 were truly guilty. Otherwise the US wouldn't be much better than the terrorists, would they?

ANYONE that was riding in the car with that Murderer *IS* guilty, and is as bad. Kill them all. I sure as HELL don't want my tax dollars going to feed and bed these assholes in a US Prison![/QUOTE]Perhaps it was a cab!

If anyone was captured they would end up in Cuba. I don't recall anyone complaining about tax dollars being spent there. The majority of those kept in Cuba will never be released. The US government have gone on record saying that even if it could be proved that they were innocent they would never be released.[/QUOTE]Hmm, I thought they just released a few of them a few weeks ago? I don't know.. keeping them there for their entire LIFE?! I think we should either move them to their home countries and let them lock 'em up or we release most of the 'less dangerous' ones.

[Ziroc]

Originally posted by Donut: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: A cab? LOL. Yeah, driver, take me the cave, and step on it. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Check out the shots. They got them traversing barren land. [edit] Oh, and Donut. Not to pick on you, but yours is the only sig that slows down my machine. Don't know if my problem is unique among Ironworkers, just mentioning it.

The cab comment wasn't serious of course, it just made me laugh. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over the death of terrorists.

As for the sig - I've used it on Ironworks for nearly two years now and nobody had complained before. I've always said that I would use it until a certain thing happened. The next opportunity that this happens is the 16th November. I have a sig made by Sazerac that I'll use when the unthinkable happens.

Hope it doesn't happen!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]All the blueboard members were 'grandfathered' and your image is fine. You got 4 years left, then you gotta change it.. I'd like to see the donut image (With sprinkles!!)

[Attalus]

Originally posted by Ziroc: All the blueboard members were 'grandfathered' and your image is fine. You got 4 years left, then you gotta change it.. I'd like to see the donut image (With sprinkles!!)

Unfair! Unfair! I want a huge image, about the size of Times Square, to compensate me for the damage to my self-esteem. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Just kidding. Please don't ban me.

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by Ziroc: quote: Originally posted by Wurm: I would have rather we captured them for only one reason. To torture them to find out everything they knew before killing them. just my 2 cents... Feel free to flame me. I don't get upset over stuff said on the internet [img]smile.gif[/img]

Anyone that flames ya will BURRRRNNNNN [img]smile.gif[/img]

We're having a great debate here! Everyone remember to keep it polite as possible, with no flames or personal attacks. We all have our own views, and we must respect them all (Even when it makes you red-hot mad) [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Absolutely - I'm very pleased at how mature this discussion has been. It's always interesting listening to another point of view and debating it - it will either a) force you to think really hard about your OWN beliefs; or b) cause you to change your beliefs. Neither is a bad thing.

THIS is the way that we conduct discussions here at IW. And Timber, your subsequent contributions have restored my faith in you once again. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[Ronn_Bman]

Well, I couldn't get in from home AGAIN yesterday, and it seems I missed alot.

There is no way I could respond to all I agree and disagree with in this thread, but I would like to address this

Originally Posted By Barry The Sprout: And Ziroc, because we don't support a military strike against a target without proof we are the naive ones? Seems a bit awry to me... Surely the world-weary response to this event would be that we really don't know for certain what information the decision to strike was made on.

Barry, what seems awry to me...is that you think, in a situation like this, its possible to provide you with evidence, prior to the strike, so you can approve the operation.

Obviously, we don't have the evidence, but isn't it a bit ridiculous to assume we should have it prior to an action.

Since we can't go and run the operation ourselves, we have to trust in the judgement of others. It's not naive, its the way the system works.

[ 11-06-2002, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

[Dreamer128]

Personally, I'd still rather have ten 'suspected' terrorists on the loose then one innocent bystander in a bodybag.
And what happened to 'innocent until proven guilty'? No matter how much evidence there is against someone, he/she is still innocent until (here we go again)this person is found guilty.

Of course I'm still young and naive, so what do I know. *shrugs.