A Debate on Homosexuality - Page 14

Bahamut · 01-12-2002, 09:06 PM

you don't measure a man's worth like that Durwyn. basically what you are saying is that men should drive hot cars and burn the wheels on where gay men don't have the guts to do so? in fact, all i can see are that gay men have even more, MORE guts than straight people. I am gutsy, but never gutsy as a homosexual, and this is one trait that makes me smile. it is harderto be yourself, and pursue what you want, especially if you are gay (leaving disabled). i know what you are saying with the bible, but you know God isn't like that. You are reading the old testament dude [img]smile.gif[/img]

Durwyn · 01-12-2002, 10:06 PM

Look, straight men are not all thugs, or some tough guys, I'm just as femanine and peacful folk as any gay men hehe. I dont want to go to Navy, I mean but still, homosexuality is not allowed in scouts, military, anything that involves some "strictness" into it.

But I'm not a guy who wants to ride hot cars, and be all tough or something, I'm just a peacful open minded folk, just as any gay men.

And no, I dont think its the old teastement. God did not create us to have sexual intercourse with the same sex. It is a sin, and will always be the lowest possible way you can bring yourself down.

Ok I best be quiet now lol I really can get fired up ya know and I would hate that heheh

.

Man anyways whats a Homosexual topic doing in a Dungeon and Dragons forum? Man Homosexuality goes even against D&D! I dont recall any homosexuals in Forgotten Realms heh

.

Durwyn · 01-12-2002, 10:11 PM

And just in advance, I do apologize if anything I said might have offended anyone. Thus I'm sorry if anything. I was just sharing my view, but thats what a debate is after all.

Besides, as I've mentioned erlier I do have homosexual friends, and really good friends they are.

Bahamut · 01-12-2002, 11:33 PM

no one is offended, why call it a debate thread when you cannot bash each other out? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Well, who knows man, maybe when our kids start to play DnD, or the kids of our kids... hehehe

Downunda · 01-13-2002, 12:14 AM

Who knows for sure there are no homosexuals in forgotten realms. For all we know Elminster could be in the closet!

Durwyn · 01-13-2002, 01:00 AM

ROFL, thats a good one LOL.

Sazerac · 01-13-2002, 01:09 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Tobbin:

I am surprised that you really believe that my comments have no meaning. All you have to do is look around and see how people as a whole deal with the issue. That in itself is enough to validate my statement. I have seen some of it firsthand myself. I used to be in the military, and you did not want to be found out to be homosexual. There was such a risk of this, that most often than naught, if someone was found they deemed to be homosexual, the person was removed from that command in the most quiet and efficient manner. When I was overseas in Europe (Scotland to be specific), we had two guys on the ship that were caught in a compromising position. None of us (except for those that discovered them) even knew about it until they were flown off of the ship for their own safety. Within the act of being caught and being flown off, the timeframe was around 2 hours MAYBE (I think it was even less really). That's just the one example. I've seen people beat up in school because they were considered homosexual. Not the fact that they were, just the fact that people BELIEVED they were. I've seen people totally snub homosexuals in and around town too. For you to actually believe that society is actually ready to TOTALLY embrace homosexuality belies the blinders you have on. Either that, or you should take off your rose colored glasses from time to time. Mel, you are totally right that people should be educated. I am glad to hear that where you live, people are in the very least tolerant about this issue. When I see people treating Ronnie differently, then maybe I will change my opinion. He's only 10 years old and he has to suffer the sins of his fathers (meaning the beliefs that his ancestors passed on to their children). Well, whether you agree with me or not is a matter of opinion. In this case, I would say I must agree to disagree. There is little point to arguing this anymore.

Just as a matter of clarification (as I'm reading it): Lord Shield's comment, Tobbin, was agreeing with you that society's views of gays was "poop", not that your comment was "poop". Of course, I may have misread it, but that's the impression I got.

Everyone, please, do read carefully before you respond; it will save a lot of wear and tear on feelings. This is a discussion forum, not a boxing ring. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Cheers,
-Sazerac

Avatar · 01-13-2002, 05:39 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Arledrian:

Uh-oh! If this doesn't start a riot among the more sensitive members at this forum then I don't know what will

Hi Alex! [img]graemlins/wavey.gif[/img] I know... but this is a place where you can voice your opinions. Unfortunately it is prejudice, but we are not here to judge that.

Tobbin · 01-13-2002, 06:33 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Sazerac:

Just as a matter of clarification (as I'm reading it): Lord Shield's comment, Tobbin, was agreeing with you that society's views of gays was "poop", not that your comment was "poop". Of course, I may have misread it, but that's the impression I got.

Everyone, please, do read carefully before you respond; it will save a lot of wear and tear on feelings. This is a discussion forum, not a boxing ring. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Cheers,
-Sazerac

If I did misread it then I apologize, but this is what I saw:

quote:

Seriously, though, it is definitely two different things, although I suspect Bahamut is not the only thought otherwise. Hence Tobbin's comments about society itself being poop

The way that I read it, my comments about society had no merit. If there was a different meaning intended, I believe better word usage should have been used.

Smeagol · 01-13-2002, 07:15 AM

Firstly to answer the various points being made about what is evil and mans duty to society etc I would like to make some points. Acts like Homosexuality do not effect the majority of society. This is in some ways the logical philosophical extension of the "They don't bother us so we don't bother them" idea. What I mean is that there are two kinds of actions that we can make as members of our society. Actions that effect other people and actions that only effect consenting people if that.

Actions that effect other members of society can be governed by that society e.g. murder, rape, peadophilia. These actions are very different from the other kind which most people would consider includes homosexuality. What I really mean is that society has no remit to judge homosexuals as what they do only really effects them as people, not as members of society.

The problem with this argument is that often people will come up with a different place to draw the line between actions that effect society and actions that effect just the actor in question. So does homosexuality effect society? I would argue no as the idea that it will halt population growth does seem to ignore the fact that the population is growing all the time.

Does it destroy societies morals? Well it depends what you want societies morals to be really. That is a question that I don't think we have much opportunity to answer. But anyway, here is a quote I thought you might like. Seems at least partially relevant:

"Good Christian people do not catch AIDS.".
- Edwina Currie MP

01-12-2002, 09:06 PM	#131
Bahamut Iron Throne Cult Join Date: March 12, 2001 Location: Manila, Philippines Age: 40 Posts: 4,864	you don't measure a man's worth like that Durwyn. basically what you are saying is that men should drive hot cars and burn the wheels on where gay men don't have the guts to do so? in fact, all i can see are that gay men have even more, MORE guts than straight people. I am gutsy, but never gutsy as a homosexual, and this is one trait that makes me smile. it is harderto be yourself, and pursue what you want, especially if you are gay (leaving disabled). i know what you are saying with the bible, but you know God isn't like that. You are reading the old testament dude [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ http://makeallthedifference.blogspot.com http://www.bratgirlcentral.com/cgi-b.../ikonboard.cgi

01-12-2002, 10:06 PM	#132
Durwyn Elminster Join Date: January 4, 2002 Location: New York Posts: 415	Look, straight men are not all thugs, or some tough guys, I'm just as femanine and peacful folk as any gay men hehe. I dont want to go to Navy, I mean but still, homosexuality is not allowed in scouts, military, anything that involves some "strictness" into it. But I'm not a guy who wants to ride hot cars, and be all tough or something, I'm just a peacful open minded folk, just as any gay men. And no, I dont think its the old teastement. God did not create us to have sexual intercourse with the same sex. It is a sin, and will always be the lowest possible way you can bring yourself down. Ok I best be quiet now lol I really can get fired up ya know and I would hate that heheh . Man anyways whats a Homosexual topic doing in a Dungeon and Dragons forum? Man Homosexuality goes even against D&D! I dont recall any homosexuals in Forgotten Realms heh . __________________ <b>-Durwyn Foehammer</b><p><i>\"Don\'t you go a-meddling with old stone or cold wights or prying in their houses, unless you be strong folk with hearts that never faulter.\"</i> - J.R.R. Tolkien

01-12-2002, 10:11 PM	#133
Durwyn Elminster Join Date: January 4, 2002 Location: New York Posts: 415	And just in advance, I do apologize if anything I said might have offended anyone. Thus I'm sorry if anything. I was just sharing my view, but thats what a debate is after all. Besides, as I've mentioned erlier I do have homosexual friends, and really good friends they are. __________________ <b>-Durwyn Foehammer</b><p><i>\"Don\'t you go a-meddling with old stone or cold wights or prying in their houses, unless you be strong folk with hearts that never faulter.\"</i> - J.R.R. Tolkien

01-12-2002, 11:33 PM	#134
Bahamut Iron Throne Cult Join Date: March 12, 2001 Location: Manila, Philippines Age: 40 Posts: 4,864	no one is offended, why call it a debate thread when you cannot bash each other out? [img]smile.gif[/img] Well, who knows man, maybe when our kids start to play DnD, or the kids of our kids... hehehe __________________ http://makeallthedifference.blogspot.com http://www.bratgirlcentral.com/cgi-b.../ikonboard.cgi

01-13-2002, 12:14 AM	#135
Downunda Set - Egyptian God of Chaos Join Date: January 7, 2002 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Age: 46 Posts: 2,975	Who knows for sure there are no homosexuals in forgotten realms. For all we know Elminster could be in the closet! __________________ \"Doing stuff is overrated, like Hitler, he did lots of stuff, but doesn\'t everybody wish he\'d just stayed at home and smoked pot?!?\"

01-13-2002, 01:00 AM	#136
Durwyn Elminster Join Date: January 4, 2002 Location: New York Posts: 415	ROFL, thats a good one LOL. __________________ <b>-Durwyn Foehammer</b><p><i>\"Don\'t you go a-meddling with old stone or cold wights or prying in their houses, unless you be strong folk with hearts that never faulter.\"</i> - J.R.R. Tolkien

01-13-2002, 01:09 AM	#137
Sazerac Ironworks Moderator Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Monroe, LA Age: 61 Posts: 7,387	quote: Originally posted by Tobbin: I am surprised that you really believe that my comments have no meaning. All you have to do is look around and see how people as a whole deal with the issue. That in itself is enough to validate my statement. I have seen some of it firsthand myself. I used to be in the military, and you did not want to be found out to be homosexual. There was such a risk of this, that most often than naught, if someone was found they deemed to be homosexual, the person was removed from that command in the most quiet and efficient manner. When I was overseas in Europe (Scotland to be specific), we had two guys on the ship that were caught in a compromising position. None of us (except for those that discovered them) even knew about it until they were flown off of the ship for their own safety. Within the act of being caught and being flown off, the timeframe was around 2 hours MAYBE (I think it was even less really). That's just the one example. I've seen people beat up in school because they were considered homosexual. Not the fact that they were, just the fact that people BELIEVED they were. I've seen people totally snub homosexuals in and around town too. For you to actually believe that society is actually ready to TOTALLY embrace homosexuality belies the blinders you have on. Either that, or you should take off your rose colored glasses from time to time. Mel, you are totally right that people should be educated. I am glad to hear that where you live, people are in the very least tolerant about this issue. When I see people treating Ronnie differently, then maybe I will change my opinion. He's only 10 years old and he has to suffer the sins of his fathers (meaning the beliefs that his ancestors passed on to their children). Well, whether you agree with me or not is a matter of opinion. In this case, I would say I must agree to disagree. There is little point to arguing this anymore. Just as a matter of clarification (as I'm reading it): Lord Shield's comment, Tobbin, was agreeing with you that society's views of gays was "poop", not that your comment was "poop". Of course, I may have misread it, but that's the impression I got. Everyone, please, do read carefully before you respond; it will save a lot of wear and tear on feelings. This is a discussion forum, not a boxing ring. [img]smile.gif[/img] Cheers, -Sazerac __________________ "And all my days are trances, and all my nightly dreams, Are where thy grey eye glances, and where thy footstep gleams, In what ethereal dances, by what eternal streams..."

01-13-2002, 05:39 AM	#138
Avatar Vampire Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: Cambridge Age: 42 Posts: 3,877	quote: Originally posted by Arledrian: *Uh-oh! If this* doesn't start a riot among the more sensitive members at this forum then I don't know what will** Hi Alex! [img]graemlins/wavey.gif[/img] I know... but this is a place where you can voice your opinions. Unfortunately it is prejudice, but we are not here to judge that. __________________ <b>Ê†ë®Ñï†Ý \'s Avariel<br /></b><br />Creator and Mithril Protector of the ALSB Clan <br /> [img]\"http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/avatar.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

01-13-2002, 06:33 AM	#139
Tobbin Red Dragon Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Holiday, FL Age: 58 Posts: 1,507	quote: Originally posted by Sazerac: Just as a matter of clarification (as I'm reading it): Lord Shield's comment, Tobbin, was agreeing with you that society's views of gays was "poop", not that your comment was "poop". Of course, I may have misread it, but that's the impression I got. Everyone, please, do read carefully before you respond; it will save a lot of wear and tear on feelings. This is a discussion forum, not a boxing ring. [img]smile.gif[/img] Cheers, -Sazerac If I did misread it then I apologize, but this is what I saw: quote: Seriously, though, it is definitely two different things, although I suspect Bahamut is not the only thought otherwise. Hence Tobbin's comments about society itself being poop The way that I read it, my comments about society had no merit. If there was a different meaning intended, I believe better word usage should have been used. __________________ <br /><br /><b>Protectorate of the OHF<br />Death Waits 4 U ALL</b>

01-13-2002, 07:15 AM	#140
Smeagol Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: January 12, 2002 Location: Surrey, England. Posts: 47	Firstly to answer the various points being made about what is evil and mans duty to society etc I would like to make some points. Acts like Homosexuality do not effect the majority of society. This is in some ways the logical philosophical extension of the "They don't bother us so we don't bother them" idea. What I mean is that there are two kinds of actions that we can make as members of our society. Actions that effect other people and actions that only effect consenting people if that. Actions that effect other members of society can be governed by that society e.g. murder, rape, peadophilia. These actions are very different from the other kind which most people would consider includes homosexuality. What I really mean is that society has no remit to judge homosexuals as what they do only really effects them as people, not as members of society. The problem with this argument is that often people will come up with a different place to draw the line between actions that effect society and actions that effect just the actor in question. So does homosexuality effect society? I would argue no as the idea that it will halt population growth does seem to ignore the fact that the population is growing all the time. Does it destroy societies morals? Well it depends what you want societies morals to be really. That is a question that I don't think we have much opportunity to answer. But anyway, here is a quote I thought you might like. Seems at least partially relevant: "Good Christian people do not catch AIDS.". - Edwina Currie MP __________________ \"This is Preservation Month. I appreciate preservation. It\'s what you do when you run for President. You\'ve got to preserve.\"<p>President George W. Bush speaking during Perserverance month.<p>\"I see this glass not half empty, but half full... and more\"<p>President George Bush Sr.

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