01-28-2002, 07:14 AM | #131 |
Manshoon
Join Date: November 2, 2001
Location: Bed
Posts: 247
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quote: First of all Foprum Policy "I might not agree with what you have to say But I'll Defend the Gut right to say it" So nobody has to put up and shut up Nationalism... Nationalism is the thriving power behind War and Suffering And at the very moment It is the USA who displays a dangerous amount of Nationalism You say "I don't give a rat's ass at this point about the Geneva Convention" and that is just what is wrong with the USA lately You don;t give a rats ass about Any convention be it the Kyoto, Geneva or the anti-rocket shield convention I think it would be best if you would be put in isolation for a while to show you You Do need the World and You need to respect the world Alright About there condition being better then they ever had I doubt it But if that is true What kinda sick world do we live in Where we let people suffer from hunger Suffering leads to Anger Anger leads to hate Hate leads to suffering This cirkel must be broken You always talk about what kinda great people you are and you give so much to cherity No wonder you do that Since you make more money then anyone else in this world We in Holland pay 40% taxes this is to support our nation And the people who cannot work If i look at the USA there are A lot of people so poor they can;t even buy food Is this such a great country? I can;t find the words to express the anger I feel anytime you seem to think you are so great It's Sad Rikard aka Chao Kang Tai
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01-28-2002, 07:18 AM | #132 |
Manshoon
Join Date: November 2, 2001
Location: Bed
Posts: 247
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quote: This is Basic Human Rights We ALL deserve this No Matter what someone did You cannot stop treating them like human beings Human beings do not get born Evil They get turned evil By people who don't care about them By Hunger and Hatred Think about it before you judge Always Look to yourself first to try and find the answers
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01-28-2002, 07:19 AM | #133 |
White Dragon
Join Date: October 19, 2001
Location: York, UK.
Age: 41
Posts: 1,815
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quote: Sorry you feel that way Nachtrafe. I can understand that with a sig like yours you feel the right to claim complete impartiality. I wanted to have a nice discussion in this thread but instead for the few posts I have actually made in between the waves of nationalism I have been insulted and villified. At least Ronn had the decency to back up his posts against me and word them in a way that came across as criticsm, not attack. If my opinion is against the current US policy then is it not valid? I have already given my reasons, and you have given yours. We disagree, as usual, what exactly is the problem? You think I hate America? Why would I still be on this board if I thought that. I enjoy a good discussion with some members of this board, but if you would rather have a discussion with only one point of view then fine. Don't blame me when it gets boring or unproductive. BTW Donut, thanks! It was getting very lonely in here... and you explained it much better than I did. |
01-28-2002, 07:25 AM | #134 |
Dracolisk
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Age: 44
Posts: 6,541
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Barry, just wanted to let you know I don't agree with a lot of your posts and agree with a lot of them, but regardless of what I think of your opinions, I certainly don't think you're "anti-american". You may object to a lot of decisions the American government makes, but I believe you do so simply because you happen to have a different opinion, not because it's an automatical knee-jerk reaction based on the principle that you disagree with ANYTHING they do.
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01-28-2002, 07:25 AM | #135 |
Red Wizard of Thay
Join Date: August 9, 2001
Location: Upstate NY, USA
Age: 51
Posts: 889
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quote: Actually, that's generally how dangerous crimials are handled the (civilized) world over. As my (crotchety old) grandpa used to say..."You dont give a mad dog a chance to bite ya." As to the pictures...those were released by the left-wing candy-asses in the American media to drum up sympathy for the 'poor mistreated/misunderstood/abused Al-Queda 'freedom fighters'. quote: I'm quite sure that the detainees fellow radical/homocidal/extremist/psychopathic Al-Quedans are quite pissed. As for the average Afghani citizen...somehow, considering their reaction to current events, I imagine that they're pretty happy about it. And really...As I said above, that is how dangerous prisoners are treated the (civilized) world over. If that is the worst that American prisoners had to deal with, before they were whisked off to their holding cells where they were being attended to by medical personel, given plenty of food, clean clothes etc, I dont imagine it would be a problem. The problem arises when the Americans are given the treatment you stated above, which is then followed by torture, abuse, starvation, and generally, painful death. So really Donut, I have not a single iota of sympathy for the Al-Queda in Gitmo. Personally, I think they should just be tortured, interrogated and then shot. But then...I've been called a barbarian on occasion. quote: Hopefully most of them will be executed. And, given the option, I hope they broadcast it on all networks. These bastards are some of the worst of the lot. Guys right under Mullah Omar and Osama. Al-Queda officers that helped plan terrorist attacks around the world, including the USS Cole, the first WTC attack, the US Embassies, and Sept 11th. These people are scum, and they need to be eliminated ASAP.
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01-28-2002, 07:28 AM | #136 |
Mephistopheles
Join Date: August 30, 2001
Location: deep within the sylvan splendor....
Age: 60
Posts: 1,443
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quote: Actually, Donut, it is my understanding that 1) these were security measures taken to lessen risk from a proven very dangerous terrorist group who don't exactly use the established means of making nice-nice at 'war'; 2) Americans do *not* hold the monopoly on this manner of subduing a severe security threat and 3) this *is* a long established manner of lessening said risk. In fact, not only in the US, but elsewhere in the world, this (manacled, blindfolded in military/sensitive situations, and otherwise rendered immobile) is used to detain prisoners on a daily basis, even with 'regular' high-risk criminals such as rapists, murderers, and those guilty of armed assault (among other crimes, I'm sure). I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, but I can understand *every* conotation of the process and support it. And for the record, I was not singling out you in my previous post. If you recall, I said the *world*, but if you believe this was meant for you alone, then Nothing I further say will matter. My point, if you care to hear it, was that several countries have expressed upset over the 'inhumane' treatment of these prisoners, yet none of these countries have either bothered to inspect the facilities on their own or offered any aid, military, financial or any other, which might improve the conditions. Now obviously this has been turned and twisted to prove how awful and harsh the Americans truly are. ::rolls eyes:: (And I recognize the factoid that the US was the one who put some of these individuals on the block to start with--to fight those who were oppressing them--ironic, ain't it?) BUT the *Americans* are the ones who got these people off the world stage at long last and now *your* children and family are safe from at least a hundred odd terrorists! [ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: Garnet FalconDance ] |
01-28-2002, 07:37 AM | #137 |
Dracolisk
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Age: 44
Posts: 6,541
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quote: To be honest I don't think they were much of a threat to "us" (how come everybody here thinks in terms of them and us? US vs the world? I don't) - it is obvious that these terrorists target America specifically. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it isn't "our" problem as long as we're safe from danger, I just wanted to point out the above. Guess it rubs me in the wrong way when Americans point out how they protect us all - kinda like "if we hadn't been around you'd all be speaking German by now (*yawn*)", I mean, do you do it because you care or because you like to brag about it? We have a saying in Holland: Good wine needs no laurels.
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01-28-2002, 07:39 AM | #138 |
Red Wizard of Thay
Join Date: August 9, 2001
Location: Upstate NY, USA
Age: 51
Posts: 889
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quote: Ooohhhh...Sarcasm. Nicely played. As per the norm, it tries to divert my point, but nicely played nonetheless. I have absolutely no problem(obviously) proclaiming my pride in my country, and I make no claims to impartiality. Neither can you. Every statement you have made regarding the current world situation is designed to portray the US in the worst possible light. quote: Not by me. I simply stated my opinion, then backed it up by citing past statements you have made. Perhaps my dictionary is a bit rusty, but that's hardly vilification. You seem to make the claim of being 'picked on' all the time. Why? Because you make insulting statements that are responded to strongly? Dont couch your arguements in such offensive terms and perhaps you wont get responded to quite so harshly. quote: Ummm...again...perhaps my dictionary is rusty, but when did I attack you. I made a statement of fact. I can go back to posts of yours on many many threads, and the vast majority are solidly anti-American. Also, did I say you hated America? I said that you constantly portray it in the most negative light. I do the same thing to liberals. Does that mean I hate them? Hardly. quote: I do welcome contrary points of view. However, I get tired of constant pounding of the same old drum to the same old tune. The words change, but the insturment never does.
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01-28-2002, 07:42 AM | #139 |
Manshoon
Join Date: November 2, 2001
Location: Bed
Posts: 247
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quote: If there had been Karma on this site It'd give you an Applaud [img]smile.gif[/img] "if we hadn't been around you'd all be speaking German by now (*yawn*)" About this Am I wrong or did you do Nothing untill You got attacked?
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01-28-2002, 07:42 AM | #140 |
Mephistopheles
Join Date: August 30, 2001
Location: deep within the sylvan splendor....
Age: 60
Posts: 1,443
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quote: I was not aware that this forum is the media........if it is, then please advice the moderators as I have gravely trounced on the rules. If you take my comments out of context, which you have, then I definitely appear to be a very hateful, self-righteous American. Taken *in* context, however, they are my opinion, stated concisely. I *said* "I don't give a rat's ass about.........these indiviuals are *not* being mistreated." Please finish the quote if you are going to use it to throw a miniature flame, be it personally aimed or at a nation. And I will reiterate, under the Geneva Convention--which I have read as well as operated under as a member of the United States military as well as two siblings (one at the moment on alert still) and other family members through the years--according to the terms stated in the Geneva Convention, these individuals do *not* qualitfy for prisoner of war status. Does this mean we (and that is the generic we) can beat them, starve them and otherwise make their lives a living hell? Of course not. But then again, I wasn't aware that that was what we were doing. |
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