Smoking Ban part 2, original by Timber Loftis

[Thorfinn]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Thorfinn: Your fear of racism rearing is ugly head is utterly irrational drivel.

Oh no. I'm talking about America and South Africa in the past. I'm not afraid of it returning. [/QUOTE]Baloney! Maybe South Africa. I know little about that. But with the exception of splinter groups like the KKK, racism in America was entirely by the government, despite whatever the businesses wanted. Do you honestly think many businessmen would turn down the chance to sell something and make a buck?

No, while it is in the state's interest to whitewash their role in racism, the fact is that they are called Jim Crow Laws for a reason -- they were laws, for pete's sake. I can't make laws. You can't make laws. Only governments make laws...

The sanitizing of the government's involvement in racism makes the retouching of Soviet history utterly trivial. Abe Lincoln is touted as a hero for freeing slaves, when he did nothing of the sort, and in fact, voted for a law banning free Negros from settling in Illinois, and supported an initiative to ship every black back to Africa and drop them off.

The amazing part is that the Soviet cititizens by and large did not forget the faces of those who were airbrushed out of the pictures, while the people in supposedly free countries seem to have an infinite capacity for forgetfullness...

[Yorick]

Originally posted by MagiK:



Bull hockey! Im a non-smoker and I have never once had anyone "Force" me to breathe smoke. And Ill bet neither have you...I will bet that every single time..you had an option to leave. Unless some of those smooching smokers had you tied up.... in that case you should have taken preemptive action to keep yer butt out of there.


And now the shoe is on the other foot. Can those that dished it aout all these years take it?


can the government tell you which legal activities you can allow on your premises.


Prostitution, gambling, marijuana smoking, tobacco smoking, public sex, erotic dancing.

Are you suggesting a democratic government can't legislate on any of these? How are you defining legal? It's the same democratic government that makes them legal or illegal? Would it help if we the people made tobacco smoking as illegal as marijuana smoking? Would that make everything allright by your standards?



Sorry can't speak as a smoker..not one..never have been. Again we were talkig about private establishments having the right to decide if they will or will not allow smoking..what is so hard for those against smoking to just stay the F%^* out of smoking establishments?...wait I already know..."but I want to go there cause its where all the really cool kids hang out" give it up, you don't have the right to dictate to business owners..and neither should the state.


We do have the right to dictate to buisness owners. There are SAFETY laws, regarding fire escapes, ventilation, hours of business, noise restrictions, serving drunks, access for disabled, underage drinking, structure of building etc etc etc.

Considering public health is at risk, the smoking ban should be considered a health restriction like any other.

Restrictions on private enterprises oppen to the public is all around you Magik. Wake up and smell the coffee.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Thorfinn: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Thorfinn: Your fear of racism rearing is ugly head is utterly irrational drivel.

Oh no. I'm talking about America and South Africa in the past. I'm not afraid of it returning. [/QUOTE]Baloney! Maybe South Africa. I know little about that. But with the exception of splinter groups like the KKK, racism in America was entirely by the government, despite whatever the businesses wanted. Do you honestly think many businessmen would turn down the chance to sell something and make a buck?

No, while it is in the state's interest to whitewash their role in racism, the fact is that they are called Jim Crow Laws for a reason -- they were laws, for pete's sake. I can't make laws. You can't make laws. Only governments make laws...

The sanitizing of the government's involvement in racism makes the retouching of Soviet history utterly trivial. Abe Lincoln is touted as a hero for freeing slaves, when he did nothing of the sort, and in fact, voted for a law banning free Negros from settling in Illinois, and supported an initiative to ship every black back to Africa and drop them off.

The amazing part is that the Soviet cititizens by and large did not forget the faces of those who were airbrushed out of the pictures, while the people in supposedly free countries seem to have an infinite capacity for forgetfullness... [/QUOTE]Have you heard of baseball? Have you heard of the Negro league?

Yorick, you may quote me in your post, but you may not mis-quote me or change the text to chjange its meaning or take it out of context..please undo your little edit above so that the purple actually reflects what I did post.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Thorfinn: My turn to sound like a broken record. Find a different place to hang out. Find a different place to hang out. Find a different place to hang out. Find a different place to hang out. Is it that tough?

Yes. It's tougher than stepping outside for two minutes, because it means I can never see the entertainment there, never eat the meals there, never drink the world famous cocktails there. And it's even tougher if I'm a single Mom who can't get a job anywhere else.

The smoking ban doesn't create the same restrictions on a smoker. So mind telling me what the big deal is?

See, I've answered. Mind answering what's so tough about stepping outside for two minutes?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by MagiK: Yorick, you may quote me in your post, but you may not mis-quote me or change the text to chjange its meaning or take it out of context..please undo your little edit above so that the purple actually reflects what I did post.

It is what you posted. I corrected the typo "gan" to "can". You said "OR GAN THE"... meaning it's an alternative I'm able to exclusively quote.

In any case, I have a requent. Could you please NOT include your reply in the quote box? If you made one structured reply instead of splitting it there wouldn't be an issue. One click quote.

Thanks.

[ 05-13-2003, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Thorfinn]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Thorfinn: My turn to sound like a broken record. Find a different place to hang out. Find a different place to hang out. Find a different place to hang out. Find a different place to hang out. Is it that tough?

Yes. It's tougher than stepping outside for two minutes, because it means I can never see the entertainment there, never eat the meals there, never drink the world famous cocktails there. And it's even tougher if I'm a single Mom who can't get a job anywhere else.[/QUOTE]This is the thing I am most irritated about. What right do you have to force someone to let you see the entertainment in their own place of business under your conditions? Why don't you just pass a law saying they have to give you free food, beer and sex, too? Why just stop at smoking? Where do you get the idea that people exist purely for your enjoyment, that they are at your beck and call to do as you want?

And as a non-smoker, I don't have to go outside, anyway. In fact, I don't even go out anymore, because smoking irritates me, too. But I don't try to make everyone adapt to the way Thorfinn would like the world to be because I am not that damned selfish.

Try to show a little consideration for someone other than yourself...

[ 05-13-2003, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: Thorfinn ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Thorfinn: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Thorfinn: My turn to sound like a broken record. Find a different place to hang out. Find a different place to hang out. Find a different place to hang out. Find a different place to hang out. Is it that tough?

Yes. It's tougher than stepping outside for two minutes, because it means I can never see the entertainment there, never eat the meals there, never drink the world famous cocktails there. And it's even tougher if I'm a single Mom who can't get a job anywhere else.[/QUOTE]This is the thing I am most irritated about. What right do you have to force someone to let you see the entertainment in their own place of business under your conditions? Why don't you just pass a law saying they have to give you free food, beer and sex, too? Why just stop at smoking? Where do you get the idea that people exist purely for your enjoyment, that they are at your beck and call to do as you want?

And as a non-smoker, I don't have to go outside, anyway. In fact, I don't even go out anymore, because smoking irritates me, too. But I don't try to make everyone adapt to the way Thorfinn would like the world to be because I am not that damned selfish.

Try to show a little consideration for someone other than yourself... [/QUOTE]You completely and conveniently ignored the big issue of the single Mom who can't get a job anywhere else. Or the student who can't work anywhere else while studying.

I am being considerate. This is people being forced to destroy their health so they can pay rent, eat or provide for a child.

That is the biggest reason this has been done. To provide a safe WORKPLACE.

[Yorick]

Thorfinn, yet again you've avoided answering the question.

What is so tough about walking outside for two minutes? Don't attempt to comeback with a "what's so tough about staying away" that's a distraction. A straw man. Answer the question.

[Yorick]

And before we go on about the jobless having a choice, has anyone heard the saying "beggars can't be choosers?"