They're at it again...

[Timber Loftis]

Imagine being one of the Afghani female PhD's or doctors when the Taliban came to power. Just imagine what that must have been like. Can't work, can't read, can't teach, can't go to school -- not if they wanted to avoid stoning, anyway.

I'm not saying this is Iraq, mind you, but Muslin countries are particularly known for a lack of women's rights. In fact, I'd put this chief on the list of horrible western values those nations fear.

[Chewbacca]

Just 150 years ago, not a long span of time in relation to all of human civilization, America had slavery and women weren't allowed to vote.


To judge a people, or a culture in general and with exageratory, derogratory terms, even veiled, because they haven't caught up with us yet is a fine example of cultural elitism. To list a bunch of "bad" things and not consider anything else is pure bias and prejudice if you ask me.


So go ahead and "dis" Arabs and Muslims all you want ya'll, just keep in mind your shite stinks as much as theirs, we in the west just got to the better toilet technology first.

[Skunk]

You cited Interpol data using total numbers of each crime. Now, unless you did some division to account for population differences, your "XX times as likely..." is incorrect, being founded on totals data and not per capita data.

The figures that I quoted are dervived from the fourth column of figures in the Interpol reports, entitled "Volumes of crimes per 100,000 inhabitants" (obviously)!

[ 08-26-2003, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: Skunk ]

[Timber Loftis]

Oh. Okay.

So, less crime. Okay, but doesn't less crime often come with less freedom? I mean, I'll risk the crime, just let me have the freedom to go to titty bars, please.

Again Skunk...you are not accounting for what gets "reported" as a crime.
Hell if you make everything legal...there's no crime at all....
Did the interpol figures count the crimes detailed as "subserive thought" which can get you shot? Or the crime of "Christianity" which can get you killed? Or the crime of being an infidel? Somehow I do not believe your figures compare apples to apples.

[Rokenn]

Here is a fine example of Islamic justice:

Nigerian stoning appeal heard
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 Posted: 8:18 AM EDT (1218 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KATSINA, Nigeria (AP) -- Baby in her arms, a single mother condemned by an Islamic court to death by stoning has appeared at a courthouse in northern Nigeria for an appeal of a sentence that has drawn an international outcry.

Amina Lawal, 32, in a blue and brown dress and pink veil, seemed overwhelmed at the crush Wednesday of riot police and journalists. "All these cameras, all these policemen," she said, tears in her eyes, as she made her way inside.

Thirty-five riot police ringed the courthouse, the heaviest security yet in what has been more than a year of off-and-on hearings.

Lawal was convicted in March 2002 after the birth of her girl, Wasila, out of wedlock. An Islamic court found her guilty of adultery even though her baby was born more than two years after her divorce.

Under Islamic laws, or Shariah, adopted in a dozen predominantly Muslim northern Nigerian states, judges ordered Lawal buried up to her neck in sand and then stoned to death.

The alleged father of the baby denied responsibility and was acquitted.

Judges have postponed carrying out Lawal's sentence until her child is weaned.

"Amina is very worried. Sometimes she can't eat. She wants to see the end of this case so that she can marry and have a normal life," said her uncle, 50-year-old Magaji Liman.

Officials of Katsina state have insisted the case go through the judicial appeals process despite requests by Nigeria's federal government that Lawal be freed.

Lawal's lawyers were due to present defense arguments at Wednesday's hearings. It had been unclear whether the hearing would even be held.

Past hearings have repeatedly been canceled, in what some have suspected is an attempt to deflect attention following international campaigns against the sentence by rights movements and women's groups.

[Skunk]

Originally posted by MagiK: Again Skunk...you are not accounting for what gets "reported" as a crime. Hell if you make everything legal...there's no crime at all.... Did the interpol figures count the crimes detailed as "subserive thought" which can get you shot? Or the crime of "Christianity" which can get you killed? Or the crime of being an infidel? Somehow I do not believe your figures compare apples to apples.

Magik, your hatred of all things middle-eastern comes from ignorance and an educational program founded on hollywood movies.

Were you aware that Syrian troops fought alongside the US in the Gulf War?

Furthermore, 8% of the Syrian population are Christian they are not 'shot' everyday or they wouldn't constitute such a sizeable minority. There are no legal restrictions on Christianity - muslims are free to convert to christianity without penalty. You will also find a not insignificant number of syrians of the jewish and Yazidi faiths too - also living without persecution or fear. Approximately, a further 3% of the population are aethists too.

"The confidence of the Christians in Syria is something you can't help notice the minute you arrive in the country. This is particularly so if you arrive from eastern Turkey. There, until very recently, minority languages like the Aramaic spoken by Syrian Orthodox Christians were banned from the airwaves and from schools. For Christianity in eastern Turkey is a secretive affair, and the government has closed all the country's seminaries. But cross into Syria and you find a very different picture. Qamishli, the first town on the Syrian side of the frontier, is 75 percent Christian, and icons of Christ and the Virgin Mary fill shops and decorate every other car window - an extraordinary display after the furtiveness of Christianity in Turkey.

http://www.orthodoxnews.netfirms.com...ves%20amid.htm

and in Iran the practice of alternative faiths is also guaranteed under the constitution:
"In accordance with the sacred verse; ("God does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with those who have not fought against you because of your religion and who have not expelled you from your homes" [60:8]), the government of the Islamic Republic of Iran and all Muslims are duty-bound to treat non-Muslims in conformity with ethical norms and the principles of Islamic justice and equity, and to respect their human rights. This principle applies to all who refrain from engaging in conspiracy or activity against Islam and the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Here is a fine example of Islamic justice:

No, that is an example of Sharia justice punishing a Hadd offence. In all of the middle-eastern countries (excluding the US's allies, UAE, Saudia Arabia and Sudan), Hadd offences are *not* recognised in the legal code - and neither are Hadd punishments administered (Iran by the way, ceased 'stoning' in January of this year).

So if you want Hadd punishments to be ended, lobby your government to stop supporting regimes where it is practiced, Saudia Arabia, Pakistan, Nigeria, UAE etc - and start supporting regimes where it is illegal, like Iran, Syria, Lebanon...

[ 08-27-2003, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: Skunk ]

[WillowIX]

Originally posted by Rokenn: Here is a fine example of Islamic justice:

As skunk stated this wasn't a fine example of Islamic justice. They don't have laws the way we do at all. Therefore a serious crime in one country doesn't have to be a fellony at all in another. Like in Japan (perhaps not any longer), the criminals are often judged from a cultural point of view. So for this to be a fine example you would need to add 'in Nigeria' and probably where in Nigeria too.

Originally posted by Skunk: Magik, your hatred of all things middle-eastern comes from ignorance and an educational program founded on hollywood movies. 1st, I never said I hated the middleeast or all things middle eastern. I DISLIKE the culture and prefer my own. HATE would require way too much emmotional energy and should not be confused for distaste or dislike. 2nd. Other than Sinbad movies I watched when I was a kid and drivein's were still popular I wasn't taught any thing at all about middle eastern civilizations. I learned it on my own by reading College Texts, Various Mythological texts and then later performing support missions in and around Israel. 3rd. I think you missed the 20 times I mentioned having been to the middle east on several occasions. Were you aware that Syrian troops fought alongside the US in the Gulf War? Which one yes I do know who was part of the coalition and who wasn't. I also know who fought and who didn't and who were paying lip service and who weren't. I also know that Saddam was hated by muslims because he was not a good one and didn't really care about religion at all..unless it was politically advantageous to be. Furthermore, 8% of the Syrian population are Christian they are not 'shot' everyday or they wouldn't constitute such a sizeable minority. There are no legal restrictions on Christianity - muslims are free to convert to christianity without penalty. You will also find a not insignificant number of syrians of the jewish and Yazidi faiths too - also living without persecution or fear. Approximately, a further 3% of the population are aethists too. In this case you are talking a narrow specific and I am talking a broader generality. I happen to know that many christian missionaries are harrassed, beaten and in other ways mistreated...unlike you I have been around for the first hand accounts these people deliver back to the church. *** Snipped out a buch of stuff that didn't pertain. *** quote: Here is a fine example of Islamic justice:

No, that is an example of Sharia justice punishing a Hadd offence. In all of the middle-eastern countries (excluding the US's allies, UAE, Saudia Arabia and Sudan), Hadd offences are *not* recognised in the legal code - and neither are Hadd punishments administered (Iran by the way, ceased its practice last month).

So if you want Hadd punishments to be ended, lobby your government to stop supporting regimes where it is practiced, Saudia Arabia, Pakistan, Nigeria, UAE etc - and start supporting regimes where it is illegal, like Iran, Syria, Lebanon...


Pick pick pick always got a defense...can't admit a single flaw [img]smile.gif[/img]
Personally I think ...well lets say we differ in our views...It does appear to me, that in your view, the only evil that exists in this world is the United States....you are entitled to your opinion...
[/QUOTE]

[ 08-27-2003, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Grendal]

Originally posted by Grendal: Im still puttin my peace hopes on a small asteroid.

Jeeze!!!....I said a SMALL asteroid!