Matrix:Reloaded Review Comments..SPOILERS!!!!!!!

[Tancred]

Originally posted by Azred: <font color = lightgreen> The Seraph isn't that complex--he guards the Oracle. Whether he does so by his own choice or by programming isn't that important; he is simply a bodyguard. His glow means that he is in the Matrix but not necessarily of the Matrix. </font>

I'm not so sure that's ALL the Seraph is. The Seraph states his purpose is 'to guard that which matters most' and in all honesty, does the Oracle matter the most? No! What about the Keymaker? The Architect? The door to the source?

The Seraph must have another role. I get the impression that in helping the Oracle he's more doing her a favour than fulfilling his only purpose.

As for Smith, I think there's only one word for what he's become: he's a virus. From what the trailer for Revolutions seems to suggest, any alliance between humankind and machinekind will come from having to oppose Smith rather than co-existing with him. It goes beyond him wanting to become the next Architect - I think Smith wants to become the only thing there is. Destroy humanity, copy himself endlessly until there is nothing but Smith left. Only then will the 'stink' of humanity be gone, and only then will Smith be able to exist forever (if the Matrix System carried out its' threat of crashing the Matrix, that would 'kill' Smith too - he doesn't want that).

[ 06-11-2003, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: Tancred ]

[Bardan the Slayer]

Originally posted by Xen: Can anyone explain to me what was the coulour(or fire) around Seraph when Neo first saw him?

Try here - some good ideas :

http://matrix.ugo.com/TheZionSwitchb...threadid=10694

Oh, and here's a cool pic -

http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.co...-code_shot.jpg

[ 06-11-2003, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: Bardan the Slayer ]

[Xen]

Cool Screenshot [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Xen]

Oh BTW who is playing Seraph?I just watched Reloaded again(i have it at home [img]smile.gif[/img] ) and I did not noticed anything about Angles.
I think Seraph is Jet Li...am i right

[Barry the Sprout]

Originally posted by Tancred: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Azred: <font color = lightgreen> The Seraph isn't that complex--he guards the Oracle. Whether he does so by his own choice or by programming isn't that important; he is simply a bodyguard. His glow means that he is in the Matrix but not necessarily of the Matrix. </font>

I'm not so sure that's ALL the Seraph is. The Seraph states his purpose is 'to guard that which matters most' and in all honesty, does the Oracle matter the most? No! What about the Keymaker? The Architect? The door to the source?

The Seraph must have another role. I get the impression that in helping the Oracle he's more doing her a favour than fulfilling his only purpose.

As for Smith, I think there's only one word for what he's become: he's a virus. From what the trailer for Revolutions seems to suggest, any alliance between humankind and machinekind will come from having to oppose Smith rather than co-existing with him. It goes beyond him wanting to become the next Architect - I think Smith wants to become the only thing there is. Destroy humanity, copy himself endlessly until there is nothing but Smith left. Only then will the 'stink' of humanity be gone, and only then will Smith be able to exist forever (if the Matrix System carried out its' threat of crashing the Matrix, that would 'kill' Smith too - he doesn't want that). </font>[/QUOTE]I agree Tancred - Seraph is not as simple as that. If he were simply programmed to protect the Oracle then what the hell is he supposed to be protecting her from. Normal people? The Agents? Thats one hell of an overkill in design terms - this guy can go toe to toe with the One and not break a sweat. I think he might have been designed for some other purpose (which we will probably learn in Revolutions... hopefully...) and has seen the cycle breaking down, or has something to gain from the cycle breaking down, and thus helps the Oracle in furthering that end.

But the Merovingian has been the source of my speculation for the last few days (yeah, my life is really that full of interesting things at the moment...). He is described as being one of the oldest and most powerful programs in the Matrix, and it appears he has the ability to write code. Does this mean he can alter the Matrix around him? If not then exactly what is his power? Gathered from little snippets of his dialogue I think he senses the Oracle's plan to break the Matrix down, or senses her role in the breaking of the cycle. Maybe that explains why he kidnapped the Keymaker - to preserve the Matrix from her influence. Also I think he understands the real nature of choice in the Matrix, something which the Architect does not, or if he does then something he lied about to Neo. If you listen to his speech about choice being an illusion, and also the Oracle's speech about our choices already having been made then theres a disturbing similarity between the two. Whats the Merovingian's role in all of this, in other words.

[Tancred]

The Merovingian... heh, that's a puzzler. You have an interesting point about the Merovingian trying to thwart the plans of the Oracle - it's very clear the two programs don't get on. The Oracle seems to be rather disapproving of programs not doing their job, and the Merovingian has a whole load of those under his command. As for him, he says...

"Tell the fortuneteller... her time is nearly up!"

It's just possible the Oracle needs protection from the Merovingian - he has a bunch of pretty lethal henchmen.

As to his function... gah, his name's no help (Merovingian - reference to early French noble family). A curious thought I had was that he was somehow connected to the function of the older 'undead' versions of Agent - the Ghost twins and those werewolves serve him, and he has a wife named Persephone (like Hades in Greek myth - another tie-in to death), who does say she has been with him from the beginning. As the Merovingian has been around for a while but is no longer required thanks to the newer forms of Agent, that theory seems to fit. Just a guess, though - we may never know. The chance of the Merovingian reappearing in Revolutions is less certain than the Seraph.

[Melusine]

Tancred, you hit upon something I wondered about - sorry if it's been discussed in this thread or in others, but I've only seen the movie this week and haven't read all the threads yet.
Anyway, I wonder why they gave so many characters names from Greek mythology (Morpheus, Niobe, Persephone) and other "charged" names like the Merovingian and Trinity. Is it just "because it sounds cool" or does anyone suppose they have some real significance? There seems to be a deliberateness to the naming...
Especially Niobe puzzles me - why would they pick that precise name? If they wanted a cool-sounding name, there are many others that are better known, and that don't have such a strong story behind it (Niobe, mother of 9 daughters and 9 sons bragged of being much better than Leto who only produced two children. But those two children were Apollo and Artemis, so DOH! All of Niobe's 18 children were killed before her eyes, despite her pleas, and she cried so much that she turned into a rock from which water sprang eternally)
If they'd named Zee (Link's wife, I think that's her name) Niobe, it would have made more sense since she lost two people (Tank and Dozer).

[Tancred]

I guess the naming conventions of The Matrix series are as odd as real life. [img]smile.gif[/img] Even in the first film we've got Apoc and Switch... names that don't really 'mean' anything. The 'freed mind' characters seem to refer to each other by their hacker aliases, so I suppose Niobe was someone who was really into Greek mythology. Tank and Dozer must have been named by somoene who was a fan of huge big heavy vehicles...?

Surely the Wachowskis aren't mad enought to want to have *every* character's role pinned in place by their name?

EDIT: As to why the Wach bros. chose that particular name... I wish I knew. There are two explanations: Either they know something about her character that we do not, and hence the reference to us does not make sense, or they plucked it out of the air.

Possibly it's a reference to something in an early draft of the film - maybe Persephone was originally named Niobe, but they changed it when the character was changed - and when the need for another character came up they remembered the name. Who knows?

[ 06-12-2003, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: Tancred ]

[Melusine]

Not pinned - hinting at something at the most. I just wondered why they chose them. Even if you are into Greek myth, why would you pick Niobe?

[ 06-12-2003, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: Melusine ]

[Tancred]

Originally posted by Melusine: Not pinned - hinting at something at the most. I just wondered why they chose them. Even if you are into Greek myth, why would you pick Niobe?

Well... people can choose pretty whimsical names for their online selves. 'Melusine' is certainly unconventional... Why would anyone name themselves 'robohobo', or 'Barry the Sprout'? (no offence meant, guys...) Answer: it sounds cool, sort of...

Or perhaps she was just christened Niobe from birth... I daresay the freed minds weren't ALL computer hackers par excellence. Especially since most of them are usually freed in their teenage years or before.

Oh, I don't know! There, I said it! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 06-12-2003, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: Tancred ]