Imoen Same-Sex Romance

[Galadria]

Absinthe, all this is the culmination of much role-playing on my part. I have decided that Immie was Gorion's ward, just like the PC, but in my world, Gorion neglected Immie in favor of the PC. She grew up resentful of the PC, yet admiring, also. I picture her as reading lots of romances of romantic, heroic thieves, such as Vlana in Fritz Lieber's The Snow Women. She engages in a few, desultory love affairs with men of the garrison, and finds them unsatisfying. She gets caught stealing, and Gorion grows disgusted with her and decides to leave her behind when he leaves with the PC. She decides not to be a thief, after all, and study magic, but she has no time. She panics when she hears Gorion and the PC leaving, so she follows and joins the PC, sorry that Gorion is gone, but happy to belong to someone, who she already feels close to. During BGI, she decides to return to her old ambition and becomes a mage, though not until another is found to do the thieving for the party. So, in my mind, she is portrat I for BGI, and after her torture, she becomes the anxious BGII portrait. Now, she is very attached to her sister, and when she is recaptured, the only thing that keeps her sane is the stubborn knowlege that the PC is going to rescue her. She is hysterical with relief when she is rescued, and in the Romance, she can't sleep outside the PC's bedroll. That's where it all starts.

[Galadria]

quote:

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Originally posted by Morgeruat:


he wasn't trying to "break" her, he was trying to evoke the fascination with death, and other dark and terrible things that being a chile of Bhaal involves, bring out the darkness in her soul.

I also think there should be some intereaction with the Harpers, (I haven't finished the game yet, so I don't know if they've found out about Imoen being a Bhaalspawn as well) but it seems like two Bhaalspawn getting together in a sexual manner, or any manner at all would raise their ire.

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Morgeruat, those are two really good points. I accept that he was trying to bring out the darkness in her soul. But, I also think that he tortured her to loosen her soul's binding with her body. And, I think that he and Bodhi had their way with her. Have you read the earlier post with the interaction with Jahiera? Maybe I can change that somewhat. Also, maybe I could change some of the scripts where the Harpers accuse the PC of being a menace to include the "Evil energies let loose in the unnatural relationship with her sister, the mage Imoen."

[ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: Galadria ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Galadria:
Absinthe, all this is the culmination of much role-playing on my part. I have decided that Immie was Gorion's ward, just like the PC, but in my world, Gorion neglected Immie in favor of the PC. She grew up resentful of the PC, yet admiring, also. I picture her as reading lots of romances of romantic, heroic thieves, such as Vlana in Fritz Lieber's The Snow Women. She engages in a few, desultory love affairs with men of the garrison, and finds them unsatisfying. She gets caught stealing, and Gorion grows disgusted with her and decides to leave her behind when he leaves with the PC. She decides not to be a thief, after all, and study magic, but she has no time. She panics when she hears Gorion and the PC leaving, so she follows and joins the PC, sorry that Gorion is gone, but happy to belong to someone, who she already feels close to. During BGI, she decides to return to her old ambition and becomes a mage, though not until another is found to do the thieving for the party. So, in my mind, she is portrat I for BGI, and after her torture, she becomes the anxious BGII portrait. Now, she is very attached to her sister, and when she is recaptured, the only thing that keeps her sane is the stubborn knowlege that the PC is going to rescue her. She is hysterical with relief when she is rescued, and in the Romance, she can't sleep outside the PC's bedroll. That's where it all starts.

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Alright, that's a logical progression. I can understand her reactions in your plot a little better now. I think your story is pretty tight. I like the fact that although Imoen is traumatized by what has happened, it doesn't break her entirely. Now I'm looking forward to playing it even more.

[Luvian]

Hi!

I often come to this board to read messages, but I usually never post.

I think this romance will be great. I hope you won't remove the rape part, as I think it add a lot to it.

In my opinion, rape is a very powerfull tool when creating a story, as it always create emotions. I think it can easily proven by all the responce this tread got.

Someone pointed out that D&D is a fantasy game, so there should not be any subject so "dark" as rape, but I disagree. I am a Dungeon Master, and I have much success with rape in my sories. Here is an example from one of my game: One of the character's romance interest got kidnaped by bandits, the PCs find the bandit's hideout and free her, and learn that she was raped, beaten,... They also learn that these bandits where hired by a villain the character defeated some time ago. The villain did this to hurth the PC in question. Now the PC is filled with hate, he really want to get to that villain and finish him off, but also at the same time he can't help but feel guilty. His love for her is what got her into so much trouble.

D&D isn't suposed to always be nice. Here is an exerpt from the Dungeon master guide, page 146:

"Don't be Afraid to Make them Evil: Evil is evil. Don't hesitate to make the villains truly evil. Betrayal, devious lies, and hideous act all make them more rewarding to defeat."

I also once saw an interview with one of the creator of the D&D game, concerning rape in Roleplaying Game. He also agreed that it was very powerfull, but not for the inexperienced DM. I will post a link to it if I can find it again.

Rape is also commonly used by Writer. Anyone familiar with the A song of Ice and Fire series from George R.R. Martin will know what I mean. Rape was also used a little by Robert Jordan in the Wheel of Time series, in the later novels.

Don't get me wrong, rape should not be in every stories, and I agree that rape is evil, but I consider it a tool, just like murder. Most DM won't mind having a few npc murdered if it can make the storyline better. If you want a rpg in wich everything is always nice, you might as well to play the Smurf's roleplaying game.

It seem to me that some of the people here are complaning about rape in this romance because they like to indetify themself as Irenicus, but would never commit rape themselves, so, when they say "Irenicus would never go that low" They mean "I would never do that".


This is only my opinion, and feel free to disagree with it. Some people also have different limits. If you think something is too much for you, then don't use it. Nobody is forcing you to use this mod.


Edit: Corrected some typo.

[ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: Luvian ]

[Galadria]

Hi, Luvian, WELCOME TO IRONWORKS [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img]
I appreciate your support. Yes, rape is, as many have pointed out, a powerful ingredient for our story. We didn't just do it for effect, however. I can't really make the connection between the Imoen that I knew in BGI and that of BGII without some truly shattering experience, and, as I said above, she really reminded me of some rape victims that I know. Interesting point of identifying with Irenicus. The denial is very similar to that which I often find in others in RL, making it difficult for rape victims to report their stories. It is often hard for others to believe that someone that they know could do something that they would never do.

[Luvian]

I have been working on a novel for some time, and I consider myself very good at writing stories. If you ever need any help or advice feel free to ask me. I will be happy to help.

[Morgeruat]

quote:

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Originally posted by Galadria:

Morgeruat, those are two really good points. I accept that he was trying to bring out the darkness in her soul. But, I also think that he tortured her to loosen her soul's binding with her body. And, I think that he and Bodhi had their way with her. Have you read the earlier post with the interaction with Jahiera? Maybe I can change that somewhat. Also, maybe I could change some of the scripts where the Harpers accuse the PC of being a menace to include the "Evil energies let loose in the unnatural relationship with her sister, the mage Imoen."

[ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: Galadria ]

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Thanx, I was kinda in a hurry earlier and just wanted to make my feeling plain before I passed the topic by and forgot about it, I feel that having two Bhaalspawn in a sexual relationship, regardless of gender would instantly and immediately draw the Harpers attention, as well as possibly the Zhentarim, and the Red Wizards (possible interaction with Edwin?) But I'll stick with the Harpers as they are the most prominent in the storyline, It could be very possible that the union of the PC and Imoen could cause a child, I'm reminded of Species, granted the movie wasn't all that well done, but you could look at the PC as Eve, and the pairing could cause the 1/2 god essence to "breed true" and create an abomination more horrible than even the PC's advancement to his/her's fathers throne would prove to be. of course this would occur to the harpers an organization based on maintaining the balance, and as little is known about 1/2 godlings, aside from the seven sisters (Daughters of Mystra), the event is essentially unprecedented, and they would take whatever means necessary to control the threat, whereas an evil organization like the Zhents, or Red Wizards of Thay would seek to manipulate them and/or turn them to their cause... Just food for thought.

BTW how's the Keldorn Romance coming along?

[Galadria]

Morgeruat, thanks again for a very helpful post. In the changed end-card, as I call it, the PC and Imoen settle down, first in Candlekeep, then move to Baldur's Gate, where they adopt many children made orphans by the Bhaalspawn, and eventually have quite an extended family. Hmmm, maybe the PC or Immie suddenly, mysteriously find themselves pregnant, and after a bout of recriminations, realise the the Bhaal-essence had completed itself in their lovemaking. Wow, gotta think about that.
As for the Keldorn romance, haven't gotten very far with that. I have done an opening dialog. It starts with K's wife getting caught messing around again, and being killed by a jealous wife, so K turns to the PC for comfort. How's that, not really adulterous?
Keldorn: "May I speak to you for a moment, my Lady?"
PC: "Why, certainly, Sir Keldorn." (I'll leave out all the alternatives, so annoying)
Keldorn: "I just received word that my wife has been buried. I am extremely distressed about it, and wanted to have your opinion on it. Do you not think that a Paladin of righteousness such as myself should rejoice that her sinful ways have found her out? I...I find that I cannot rejoice. I am very sad, and feel that I am sinning in this regard. What do you think?"
P.C. "Why, Sir Keldorn, are those tears that I see in your eyes? (puts her arms around him) Do not shame to cry. You loved her once, and I am sure that Torm the True would want nothing but honest grief. Remember your children! You must bear up, for their sake."
Keldorn: "Yes, my Lady, I shall go to them and comfort them, if it is all right with you."
So, then you all go back to Keldorn's estate. You like?

[Morgeruat]

I like the idea, I find it alot more palatable for maintaining the spirit of his character as the designers wanted it, not to mention my own views of what paladinhood should entail (my all time fav character class, with the possible exception of my first D&D character a dwarven priest).

As far as the Imoen romance goes, I'll be happy to throw out any ideas I get as long as they're welcome.

now maybe I can get back to trying to get out of the underdark for the first time. lol, btw my PC is a female cavalier I've used since BG1

[Azred]

quote:

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Originally posted by Luvian:
Someone pointed out that D&D is a fantasy game, so there should not be any subject so "dark" as rape, but I disagree.

*********

D&D isn't suposed to always be nice. Here is an exerpt from the Dungeon master guide, page 146:

"Don't be Afraid to Make them Evil: Evil is evil. Don't hesitate to make the villains truly evil. Betrayal, devious lies, and hideous act all make them more rewarding to defeat."

*********

If you want a rpg in wich everything is always nice, you might as well to play the Smurf's roleplaying game.

It seem to me that some of the people here are complaning about rape in this romance because they like to indetify themself as Irenicus, but would never commit rape themselves, so, when they say "Irenicus would never go that low" They mean "I would never do that".

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Excellent points, Luvian. The original concept of fantasy role-playing games was to have a group of heroic individuals banding together to combat the forces of evil. Evil. Evil doesn't play "nice"; that is not its nature. I usually made my villains commit despicable acts; some worse than others, yes, but all bad. Occasionally I would throw in an evil character who might, depending upon the party's actions, become redeemed (another common theme in literature). My most vile creations would do things that would make normal people sick; the worst of these were based on The Astronomer from the Wild Cards series. I don't "identify" with them, but I do understand such characters. Fortunately, I also knew how to balance this with comic relief; had I wanted dark all the time I would have played Vampire: The Masquerade....

Psychologically, role-playing games are great experiments. I saw plenty of people creating themselves as characters, either themselves as they were or themselves as they would like to have been. (And yes--I, too, was guilty of doing this at times.) Done correctly, even on a computer, it can be an interesting exercise in self-awareness and even fun; done incorrectly...well, let's just say that losing touch with reality to that degree is a sign to seek help.

@Galadria: really good beginning to a Keldorn romance. I can see him not resorting to divorce because of the social ramifications (btw, is divorce legal in Amn?) and carrying around his silent grief for years. I know I'm stating the obvious here (so please forgive me), but if his wife is dead then he can't be committing adultery. Anyway, once she is gone he has all that grief to work through; I can see the beginning of a bond with the PC there. This would be a romance with no "flings" before a marriage, though (that just wouldn't be right, don't you know ). Excellent work! I like!

[ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: Azred ]