Madman's Discussion on Drug Use (NO GLORIFYING DRUG USE HERE)

Originally posted by Earthdog: IMO alcohol is far more dangerous than pot. You cant smoke until you get tunnel vision and you cant smoke until you go permanently blind. You cant smoke so much that you choke to death on your own vomit. You cant smoke so much that that your blood-thc level is so high that it kills you. Unlike alcohol you cant OD on pot. In the US the big stink the last couple years is Right to Life groups or whoever trying to make Cigarettes ILLEGAL. We know that Nicotine is the most addictive substance in the entire world. These groups are trying to label Cigarettes as a "DELIVERY DEVICE FOR NICOTINE." If they are successful in getting Cigarettes BANNED on that basis I will begin a push to get COFFEE MUGS and BOTTLES and CANS banned as well. Those are DELIVERY DEVICES for CAFFIENE AND ALCOHOL. Both Caffiene and alcohol are addictive as well. Where does this Politically Correct crap STOP??? If someone doesnt like cigarette smoke DONT GO TO THE BAR. Drink at home. Its cheaper anyway. Alcohol reduces nicotine in the bloodstream. Its a circular thing:smoke drink smoke drink ....... Chances are you wont hear any music at the bar that you havent heard before or wont hear again. Buy the CD and let the smokers who drink do so in peace.

E.D. I normally agree with you but on the smoking issue, Im against it. I am tired of smelling the guy driving in front of me when he is smoking in another car....Smoking is one of the truly "intrusive" vices, if you could smoke and keep the smoke to your self that would be one thing, but when you smoke, you affect every individual around you for many feet. There is just no good way to smoke with out affecting others. As for Bars....Bars exist to serve alcohol and are not as such an establishment for smokers...and people other than smokers like to drink and socialize don't ya know?

On the other hand, if the establishment is a private one, I think the owners of the bar, pub or whatever should be the one to decide if it is a smoking or no smoking area and not the government.

I am anti-government intrusion into our personal lives but I choose not to fight against the anti-smoking laws...altho it is a bit irritating that is the government doing it.

Oh and just one other thing, why is it that smokers have to toss their butts wherever they happen to be? Does smoking necessitate littering too?

Just my thoughts on that issue....

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by MagiK: E.D. I normally agree with you but on the smoking issue, Im against it. I am tired of smelling the guy driving in front of me when he is smoking in another car....Smoking is one of the truly "intrusive" vices, if you could smoke and keep the smoke to your self that would be one thing, but when you smoke, you affect every individual around you for many feet. There is just no good way to smoke with out affecting others. As for Bars....Bars exist to serve alcohol and are not as such an establishment for smokers...and people other than smokers like to drink and socialize don't ya know? On the other hand, if the establishment is a private one, I think the owners of the bar, pub or whatever should be the one to decide if it is a smoking or no smoking area and not the government. I am anti-government intrusion into our personal lives but I choose not to fight against the anti-smoking laws...altho it is a bit irritating that is the government doing it. Oh and just one other thing, why is it that smokers have to toss their butts wherever they happen to be? Does smoking necessitate littering too? Just my thoughts on that issue....

I hear ya MagiK, I'm a smoker and I if could think of a way to smoke in my car and not have the odor of smoke waft all around I'd do it.
I try to avoid smoking anywhere near where it may interfere with a person right to be smoke free, but alas, life is full of compromises.

But then again cars emmit unhealthy fumes and emmit quite an odor, not to mention the the risks of accident and the pollutuion underground gas tanks cause, so maybe we should over-tax the people who drives those too. And what about lawnmowers? not only do those smell, they are noisy! We outa overtax lawnmowers as well! And Airplanes, I can hear those even if they are thousands of miles overhead, no way around that either!

My point is life is full of smelly, noisy dangers and we can either decide to live with them, or we can crusade to end the smelly unhealthy dangers and the only practical way to do that is via...goverment.

I consider myself a libertarian as well, I say let the people smoke who want to and set up places in the general public where smoking is off-limits for those who dont. Thats how it is now and it seems to work just fine on the whole.

I think its pathetic that people can still sue tobacco companies for health problems that they created themselves by choosing to smoke. Come on, the warning labels have been on the packs for some time now, those people ought to take some personal responsility for their own addictions and stop blaming the companies.

If I develop a smoking related illness, I will have no one to blame but myself and I have premium health coverage as well as extra life insurance to cover any left over debt if die from it. So all the extra tax I pay for my smokes goes to fund all the unresponsible people who dont plan ahead for the consequences of their own actions.

Originally posted by MagiK: Dramnek you really do not understand economics,

Post proof Or Retract.

Originally posted by MagiK: or how wealth works. And this is completely off topic so Im not going to bother with a list of why this idea doesnt work.

At least be honest and say that you cannot counter that point,
Or perhaps you could explain it in a P.M or E-mail hmmm?

[johnny]

I see the topic has now changed into a smokers bashing issue, how typical !

[caleb]

[johnny]

Yay Caleb, you've won the gold medal !

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

Caleb , that is just wrong on soo many levels , but damn funny!!

[caleb]

Originally posted by johnny: Yay Caleb, you've won the gold medal !

[ 07-15-2002, 02:40 AM: Message edited by: caleb ]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: I hear ya MagiK, I'm a smoker and I if could think of a way to smoke in my car and not have the odor of smoke waft all around I'd do it. I try to avoid smoking anywhere near where it may interfere with a person right to be smoke free, but alas, life is full of compromises. But then again cars emmit unhealthy fumes and emmit quite an odor, not to mention the the risks of accident and the pollutuion underground gas tanks cause, so maybe we should over-tax the people who drives those too. And what about lawnmowers? not only do those smell, they are noisy! We outa overtax lawnmowers as well! And Airplanes, I can hear those even if they are thousands of miles overhead, no way around that either! Actually we already over tax all those people. More than half of the cost of a gallon of gasoline is Tax. As for smelly, I do not smell the cars, I smell the guy sitting in front of me smoking his cig. at the stop light. Lawn mowers and cars are ALL being regulated to become cleaner (and thus becomming more expensive) I see no effort to make smokable tobacco less odiferous, offensive or invasive...other than raising the taxes on them. My point is life is full of smelly, noisy dangers and we can either decide to live with them, or we can crusade to end the smelly unhealthy dangers and the only practical way to do that is via...goverment. Im not on a crusade to end all smelly offensive things, Id have to outlaw my sons feet if I were to do that (Im not kidding, its amazing the odors that a teenagers feet can produce) I consider myself a libertarian as well, I say let the people smoke who want to and set up places in the general public where smoking is off-limits for those who dont. Thats how it is now and it seems to work just fine on the whole. I say let them smoke..but do it where the rest of humanity doesnt have to come in contact with it. At least heroin is injected and less offensive to a random passerby. I think its pathetic that people can still sue tobacco companies for health problems that they created themselves by choosing to smoke. Come on, the warning labels have been on the packs for some time now, those people ought to take some personal responsility for their own addictions and stop blaming the companies. Suing the companies is really stupid...sue the car company if someone hits you with one of their cars, sue a gun company if some oen shoots you with one of their guns..its all plain ludicrous. If I develop a smoking related illness, I will have no one to blame but myself and I have premium health coverage as well as extra life insurance to cover any left over debt if die from it. So all the extra tax I pay for my smokes goes to fund all the unresponsible people who dont plan ahead for the consequences of their own actions. In reality your over taxation goes to line the pockets of big government and is used to redistribute wealth...mostly to rich congressmen and senators but also to some truely needy people...but the needy are a minority recipient.

[ 07-15-2002, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Dramnek you really do not understand economics,

Post proof Or Retract.

Originally posted by MagiK: or how wealth works. And this is completely off topic so Im not going to bother with a list of why this idea doesnt work.

At least be honest and say that you cannot counter that point,
Or perhaps you could explain it in a P.M or E-mail hmmm?[/QUOTE]As proof I posit all your previous posts where you ignored any published facts and just changed the issue. See your private message for more detail.