Science- Religion or Not?

[Lady Blue03]

Now, most of this is way over my head. I agree with theifprowess to a degree, but i don't want to debate about it, because i suck at debating [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Now my memory is a bit rusty on this, because i dont know if Gallileo(sp)was the one who proclaimed that the earth was round, that it revolved around the sun, or both. If it was the former, was it not the church who condemed him for stating such? If it was the latter then i'll just drop the subject entirley [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

Jun 22 1633 The Holy Office in Rome forces Galileo Galilei to recant his scientific view that the Sun, not the Earth, is the center of the Universe: "I abjure with a sincere heart and unfeigned faith these errors and heresies, and I curse and detest them as well as any other error, heresy or sect contrary to the Holy Catholic Church."

Yup , it was Galileo, And look what they did to him for it!! Proof to my earlier statement that religon stands in the way of science.

[theifprowess]

thank you lady blue i need a litle positive reinforcement.

i still want that answer from god though. give me this little miracle.

[Leonis]

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: quote: Jun 22 1633 The Holy Office in Rome forces Galileo Galilei to recant his scientific view that the Sun, not the Earth, is the center of the Universe: "I abjure with a sincere heart and unfeigned faith these errors and heresies, and I curse and detest them as well as any other error, heresy or sect contrary to the Holy Catholic Church."

Yup , it was Galileo, And look what they did to him for it!! Proof to my earlier statement that religon stands in the way of science.[/QUOTE]Umm. Not exactly. It was common knowledge that the earth was round at the time (and had been since biblical times). Galileo's findings supported Copernicanism - which was that all objects in our system revolved around the sun, not 1) the earth or 2) some earth, some sun.

He was forced to recant as stated above and confined to house arrest (at his villa) for life.

[Lady Blue03]

Originally posted by theifprowess: thank you lady blue i need a litle positive reinforcement. i still want that answer from god though. give me this little miracle.

NP prowess. I was not brought into a religous family, so i had no reason to believe in god from that standpoint(and thres a mormon church next to me and a 7th day adventist acroos [img]tongue.gif[/img] ). Of course i love everything about science, that may be another factor, but i dont want to get into that either because it could get me in trouble . I also have yet to witness the miracle [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Lady Blue03]

Originally posted by Leonis: quote: Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: quote: Jun 22 1633 The Holy Office in Rome forces Galileo Galilei to recant his scientific view that the Sun, not the Earth, is the center of the Universe: "I abjure with a sincere heart and unfeigned faith these errors and heresies, and I curse and detest them as well as any other error, heresy or sect contrary to the Holy Catholic Church."

Yup , it was Galileo, And look what they did to him for it!! Proof to my earlier statement that religon stands in the way of science.[/QUOTE]Umm. Not exactly. It was common knowledge that the earth was round at the time (and had been since biblical times). Galileo's findings supported Copernicanism - which was that all objects in our system revolved around the sun, not 1) the earth or 2) some earth, some sun.

He was forced to recant as stated above and confined to house arrest (at his villa) for life.[/QUOTE]I knew i would get proved wrong, just had to be sure. Subject Galileo dropped

[Leonis]

Originally posted by Lady Blue03: I knew i would get proved wrong, just had to be sure. Subject Galileo dropped

Hey, it was pretty close! The Church leaders should have read their Bibles more closely in this case unfortunately... If they did they wouldn't have needed poor Galileo to prove them wrong.

This is a good example of what happens when human pride gets in the way of Divinity. God had spelled it out in black and white but they refused to see it. Happens far too often I'm afraid...

[ 06-24-2002, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: Leonis ]

Originally posted by Leonis: It was common knowledge that the earth was round at the time (and had been since biblical times)[/QB]

Since About the sixth century B.C., some astronomical observations indicated the earth to be a sphere and by the time of the Middle Ages, the scholarly opinion was for the spherical earth.
The Bible seems to say that the earth is basically a sphere in shape; that there are pillars which undergird the world and which one could conclude to be the crystalline rock corresponding to what we commonly call the mantle; that there are an unspecified number of foundations which range in size all the way from the foundations of the hills and mountains to the core of the earth and to the very foundation which is (supposedly) the Jesus.

[DeSoya]

Umm. Not exactly. It was common knowledge that the earth was round at the time (and had been since biblical times). Galileo's findings supported Copernicanism - which was that all objects in our system revolved around the sun, not 1) the earth or 2) some earth, some sun.

Actually the Greeks calculated the circumfrence of the earth with about a ten percent degree of accuracy. So they knew that the earth was round well before "Biblical" times. There is some evidence that the aztecs and the sumerians may have had a notion that earth was round.
The real problem here the that the institution of the church decided to ignore most of the wisdom of the ancient greeks, relying only on what fit the doctrine of the time.

"The Church says that the Earth is flat, but I know that it is round. For I have seen the shadow on the moon and I have more faith in the Shadow than in the Church." Ferdinand Magellan

I think Magellan's unintended point is a good one. The blind faith that we sometimes put in institutions (Science, The Church, The Government, etc.) can often lead us astray. There are those who have faith in God like Yorick and Cerek [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] and those who have faith in ourselves or in what we percive to be facts [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] . Like Magellan we see the divine in the world at large instead of seeing it in a building or a cultural edifice. If too much faith is put into these institutions then you could easily make a case for science being a religion or even government being a religion.

Lady Blue: While Galileo didn't prove the earth was round his publication was what got the theory widely accepted.... You were almost right. And that's pretty darn good. Even in science.

DeSoya

[Leonis]

Originally posted by DeSoya: Actually the Greeks calculated the circumfrence of the earth with about a ten percent degree of accuracy. So they knew that the earth was round well before "Biblical" times. There is some evidence that the aztecs and the sumerians may have had a notion that earth was round. The real problem here the that the institution of the church decided to ignore most of the wisdom of the ancient greeks, relying only on what fit the doctrine of the time. quote: "The Church says that the Earth is flat, but I know that it is round. For I have seen the shadow on the moon and I have more faith in the Shadow than in the Church." Ferdinand Magellan

I think Magellan's unintended point is a good one. The blind faith that we sometimes put in institutions (Science, The Church, The Government, etc.) can often lead us astray. There are those who have faith in God like Yorick and Cerek [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] and those who have faith in ourselves or in what we percive to be facts [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] . Like Magellan we see the divine in the world at large instead of seeing it in a building or a cultural edifice. If too much faith is put into these institutions then you could easily make a case for science being a religion or even government being a religion.

Lady Blue: While Galileo didn't prove the earth was round his publication was what got the theory widely accepted.... You were almost right. And that's pretty darn good. Even in science.

DeSoya[/QUOTE]DeSoya, if you believe the Bible, as I do, it's timeline extends back to the begining of creation. If you don't, but do believe in science, then we are talking around the period the dead sea scrolls are believed to have been written(the oldest verifiable), which still makes it an exceptionally old text.
My point being that nowhere in the Bible are any statements made that the earth is flat, or that the solar system/universe revolves around the earth.
The 'earth is flat' people ignored not only science but the very doctrine they claimed to defend. A common fault of humans, not only in all religions but in all codes/creeds/morals/ethics/societies etc...
Hypocrasy, Lying and Self Interest extend to all walks of life.
How many politicians or scientists have stated contradictory beliefs due to payolla? (sp?)
How many times have we compromised our own beliefs for personal gain? Or even to protect others?

I agree with you in that too many people exercise blind faith, in religion, politics, science, relationships etc...