Massive Riots in France

[Stratos]

Originally posted by shamrock_uk: Awesome idea. Looks appraisingly at Australia. Sure you guys don't have any room? It'd be just like old times... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

You mean turning Australia into a prison colony? What do you get these kind of ideas from?

Edit: Maybe we could send them to that place that run out of beer. It's sounds backwater enough.

[ 11-11-2005, 07:49 AM: Message edited by: Stratos ]

[Memnoch]

I kind of got really personally affected by this for some reason. I'm a fairly congenial, kindhearted person and I appreciate that there's a lot of inequality in our world and governments can and should do a lot more to integrate people who are underprivileged. But I don't have a lot of sympathy for morons who torch cars, burn neighbourhoods, shoot or throw Molotovs at firemen trying to do their bloody jobs and loot stores just because they're angry about inequality. The quote from one of the rioters: "I don't know the words to express my situation. I have only anger - and I know how to express that."

Rather than whinging and rioting try and bloody apply yourself. Don't drop out of school (I hear a lot of these communities have very high dropout rates even though the government provides free public schooling. That'll improve your chances of getting a good job. From what I've read about this here in Boston and spoken to French people in my class (and I encourage anyone who has contrary info to correct me) the French government pays for public housing as well? In fact most places in Europe have much more of a socialist mentality than places in the US (Australia is more than the US but not as much as Europe - not any more).

I suppose my views are tainted by where my family came from. My mother and father both came from humble beginnings. My dad was dirt poor when he was young. He came from a simple village in the provinces. My grandfather was a farmer. My mother also came from a poor family. Her father was a fisherman. There were times when they had to tape their shoes up because they couldn't afford to get new ones when they were at school. For notebooks they glued pieces of paper together and used that.

But they worked bloody hard to try and create a better future for us. My grandparents sacrificed so much to make sure their kids got an education in Manila, the education they never got. They all sacrificed (and in a third world country sacrifice doesn't mean not being able to buy that DVD you wanted, it means sometimes going without food for a few days because you just can't afford it). But they rose above all that by working their bloody arses off, so that they could in turn make sure WE (my sister and I) didn't have to go through what they went through. My father went from humble beginnings as the son of an illiterate farmer to Director of Finance for Procter & Gamble Asia Pacific. And he did it by sheer bloody hard work and perseverance.

I suppose those values of hard work, perseverance and refusal to admit defeat no matter what the external factors are were imprinted on us at an early age. Our parents taught us to NEVER take anything for granted. They also taught us that you may not get exactly to where you want, but you CAN change your life, even if the world seems like it's against you.

I don't deny for a moment the frustration and despair that some of these young people feel. I totally agree the govts should do more to provide education, opportunities, etc. But everytime I go to the Philippines to visit my folks I see people in even more hopeless situations. Some of them are my relatives. But they bloody try and DO something about their plights. They know that the Philippine government has no money to help them, to provide free schooling and housing. I myself am paying to send some of my cousins' kids to school.

Apply yourself even if the situation seems hopeless. Be a taxi driver. Work as a labourer. Save some money. That's where it starts - with attitude. Try and do something to change your life - don't expect the government to do it all for you. I'll wager that some of these thugs who are torching cars and looting shops while whinging about not having a fair go are ones who dropped out of school early and spent their adolescence hanging around street corners wasting their lives earlier on. It's right to try and effect social change in a non-violent way like Martin Luther King did - but try and help yourself as well.

Sorry for such a long and personal post but I just read an article about this in the Boston Globe then I came on here for the first time in a long while (been so bloody busy with uni) and read about this and it really touched a nerve with me.

[Sir Degrader]

Congradulations to your relatives Mem, it's a story I hear alot here in Toronto, and enjoy hearing. That being said, I don't think these youths really care. Their parents made sacrifices as well, yet the youths seem to be content to piss away their future in an orgy of fire and violence.

~ Edit: Since the other thread got closed, here's the updates:
1) Riots restarted in Lyon and other regions in Europe.
2) Police are furious at Chirac for incarcerating one of their own.

[ 11-13-2005, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Sir Degrader ]

[Timber Loftis]

An emotional post, Memnoch, and well put. I'd hate to see how emotional you would have been had you touched on the topic nearest and dearest to your heart -- the destruction of poor innocent roadsters.

[Sir Degrader]

Update: The army has been ruled out. Damn.

"And, although he ruled out bringing in the army, he said "at each step, we will take the necessary measures to re-establish order very quickly throughout France."

[Memnoch]

It was a bit of an emotional rant, but I wanted people to know that I'm not the most objective person around when it comes to evalating the merits of people who torch cars, destroy property and steal for fourteen days in a row.

[johnny]

Well, that's a normal reaction as far i'm concerned. I fail to see how this helps their situation too. There were already generalisations towards north Africans, and this is not going to benefit them one bit, the only thing they accomplish with this, is a bundle of extra votes for Le Pen on electionday. And if they think their situation is bad right now, or that things couldn't get any worse, then just wait and see what happens if that man calls the shots in France.

One other thing aside from poverty, was discrimination. They say the French government and the police discriminate them. Maybe things wouldn't be so bad if they were a bit more tolerant themselves, because you have to look damn hard to find a less tolerant race of people than them. Discrimination of women and homosexuals is part of their culture it seems, and don't even have the nerve to ask their feelings towards western values, religeons other than Islam, Americans and everything they stand for, and last but not least, the Jews.

Discrimination ? Bah....pot....kettle...black.

[Sir Degrader]

Originally posted by johnny: Well, that's a normal reaction as far i'm concerned. I fail to see how this helps their situation too.

They're relying on Chirac going belly up. Which he migh, considering the way things are going. If Le Pen gets elected though... hoo hoo, I'd pay to be in France when that happens.

[Link]

Originally posted by Sir Degrader: quote: Originally posted by johnny: Well, that's a normal reaction as far i'm concerned. I fail to see how this helps their situation too.

They're relying on Chirac going belly up. Which he migh, considering the way things are going. If Le Pen gets elected though... hoo hoo, I'd pay to be in France when that happens. [/QUOTE]To see burning crosses everywhere and people dressed in white chanting "Le KKK se resemble liberté" as the nation's newest motto?

Although the above is a fairly black and white picture of what Le Pen stands for, I still detest people who just place the blame of the situation in an entire country with another group. One thing I'm glad I've learned is that it's not too bad to actually reflect back upon yourself and what you've done to have gotten in a bad situation. Most often there's a pretty damn good reason for it, and the fingerpointing should therefore be in your own direction instead of someone else's.
While slightly off-topic, just a couple of days ago there was a special on "Netwerk" [translated "Network" -- a Dutch tv-show focussing on national and international problems and issues mostly] about an English sociologist or psychologist (can't remember which one) who detested the fact that antisocial people without a basic income never place the blame on their situation themselves, but rather on something else ("Alcohol did this to me", while it was them who actually drained the bottle!). What I applaud him for is that he said he detested the people that praise these people because of their behaviour (you may remember the infamous Dutch family the Tokkie) even more.
Sorry for that little detour, but I just had to share.

-------
Just a little something for the discussion: a politician for the city of the Hague resigned not too long ago because he found himself saying: "Young muslims hide behind their religion to commit antisocial or rebellious deeds." Discuss away.

[dplax]

Well I just got back to Lyon by train. I knew there wasn't any public transportation (when I left on Thursday they said that at least until Sunday there was only going to be tranportation until 6 pm), but other than that I couldn't see any more effects of the riots.