Oh! The little devils are dead!

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: God was behind the coalition forces of course! The prayers of their citizens drove them to victory!

please please please please pleeeeeeeeease tell me you are joking.

[Animal]

Originally posted by Azred: quote: Originally posted by Animal: Perhaps they did deserve to die but it's not for me or you to decide that much less celebrate it. In doing so, we become no better than the very same people that are hunted for that exact same behaviour. Maybe there's a little "Hussein" in all of us?

To whom should the "power of life and death" belong? God? [img]graemlins/erm.gif[/img] I didn't see God doing anything to stop their evil actions, and no one else was doing anything either.

If you may not celebrate the end of an evil, then what may one celebrate? Didn't everyone celebrate the death of the Wicked Witch of the West? [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img]

Of course there is a little Hussein in all of us. Like I said earlier, at least I realize and accept that, but I don't focus on it. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]The power of life and death belongs to everyone and no one, NOT the one group. As for God, that's a topic for another thread, not this one.

Celebrating the end of a human life whether evil or not, is barbaric when it is celebrated for the wrong reasons, as this has been. I did not know the Hussein boys, they did me no wrong, I do not celebrate their death. Maybe they deserved what they got, who is to say? Me, you...is anybody on this forum qualified to determine the fitness of another human being to live or die. No, that is for a jury of peers to decide. That is what the US is occupying Iraq for, right? Freedom, the right to a fair trial?

The one thing that disturbs me the most though, is how the war has played out. The hunt for Saddam continue, his sons presumably dead...the card game is almost over. You would think that the perp behind 9/11 would be a much more wanted man than the family of someone who had nothing to do with it, or is this , once again, cowboy justice...I'm still unsure of how Iraq was a direct threat to the US national security? Maybe someone can explain it to me.

[Animal]

Originally posted by Ziroc: quote: Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by Ziroc: Just because you don't like the US Military, don't let it cloud your thinking. If YOU were fired at, would you sit there and go 'please come with us alive'? no.

When have I [img]graemlins/madhell.gif[/img] EVER [img]graemlins/madhell.gif[/img] stated I dislike the US Military. I have great respect for the people in the Armed Services. And have several friends how are on active duty. Don't let my oppostion to the Bush Administration's policies cloud your thinking. [/QUOTE]Ok, but you assumed that our Military went in, guns blazing. As the other users link shows it didn't. [/QUOTE]C'mon Z, you can't believe for one minute that the US forces went in not thinking about a bloodbath. They had no intentions of capturing them, as much as they had the same about fighting to the death.

It's not about a dislike for the US military, but a dislike for the actions that they have been ordered to do.

[Sir Taliesin]

Animal, do you read or hear the same news we do? Or is it just your total dislike of the Bush Administration that closes both your eyes and ears? Damn! We Americans must be total barbarians in your eyes. That is NOT the way our forces operate!

[Animal]

Originally posted by Sir Taliesin: Animal, do you read or hear the same news we do? Or is it just your total dislike of the Bush Administration that closes both your eyes and ears? Damn! We Americans must be total barbarians in your eyes. That is NOT the way our forces operate!

No, I don't believe that Americans are complete barbarians, but I do believe that some do a convincing impersonation. The Iraq war has had BS written all over, right from day one with lies and half truths being the order of the day by those who pushed for it.

It's not a question of closed ears and eyes, but the exact opposite. I am not biased or tainted by a perceived threat to my national security, so I am quite capable of seeing straight.

It's quite simple, all Mr. Bush has to do is stand up, be a man, and tell the f'ing truth or is does he feel the people that elected him don't deserve it.

It pi**es me off when people justify the means by the end result. A man is judged based upon his actions and his words, so what kind of men do you have in office? What kind of men are in control of the worlds most powerful destructive force?

Remind me again, what role Iraq played in a threat to US national security? How long will it be before Canada or Mexico is deemed a threat to national security? The only people that can stop this kind of lying and deceipt are the citizens of the United States of America, and apparantely they don't care.

Yes, Saddam was a potential threat, but Mr. Bush presents a far graver potential threat than Saddam ever could have.

[Sir Taliesin]

After that little diatribe, I rest my case. Thank you!

[ 08-01-2003, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: Sir Taliesin ]

[Timber Loftis]

Today's newspapers are discussing the administrations goal to catch Hussein and put him on trial before an Iraqi tribunal. I'd say they probably would have preferred to do the same with Uday and Qusay. I know I, and I think most posters on this forum may have preferred that.

*sarcasm mode engaged*
But, if you insist on calling us barbarians no matter what, let me make a perfectly barbaric counterargument: If you don't like it, gang up and try to stop it, whimps, and quit your snivelling and whining. [img]tongue.gif[/img] You ain't gonna talk us to death, despite your best efforts, so go get a weapon and come at us or shut up, sit down, and quit wasting both our time and your time. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
*sarcasm mode off*

Seriously, there is some "Cowboy" some wayward adventure persona in the American spirit. From our first beginnings with the Declaration of Independence, we've taken it upon ourselves to go right the things in the world we see as needing fixing. As a nation, we see ourselves as loners. And, by and large, we are fine with that. Sometimes doing things your own way requires a measure of determination and resolve and a willingness to act without the approval of others.

While there may well be some issues one can take with this persona (it offends me from time to time of course), there are also virtues in it. It is the American romantic vision. It is the way it is, and at the end of the day I for one prefer it to the alternatives I've seen.

[Azred]

Originally posted by Animal: It pi**es me off when people justify the means by the end result. A man is judged based upon his actions and his words, so what kind of men do you have in office? What kind of men are in control of the worlds most powerful destructive force?

Yes, people are judged based upon their actions. What, then, should be our judgement about those who did not step up to the plate and help the Coalition forces depose Hussein, a known murderer?

Originally posted by Animal: Remind me again, what role Iraq played in a threat to US national security? How long will it be before Canada or Mexico is deemed a threat to national security? The only people that can stop this kind of lying and deceipt are the citizens of the United States of America, and apparantely they don't care.

Canada? Mexico? Threats to national security? [img]graemlins/erm.gif[/img] Not to be rude or anything, but...not hardly.

We know our leaders are going to lie to us at some point; in fact, we expect it...it is simply part of the nature of politics.

I wouldn't say that we don't care. Rather, there are those in America who are tired of always being protrayed as "the bad guy" throughout most of the world. For the most part, the average American will take only so much of this sort of harassment before desiring to "push back", so to speak. I, personally, don't really care, because I am above such pettiness and, quite honestly, the naysayers who deride America are beneath my notice. Unfortunately, the majority of Americans are not like me....("thank God", Belle mutters as she reads over my shoulder [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img] )
In short, it has a lot to do with the "cowboy" nature that Timber describes.

Originally posted by Animal: Yes, Saddam was a potential threat, but Mr. Bush presents a far graver potential threat than Saddam ever could have.

Only when he decides to hold a press conference. [img]graemlins/doh.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img]

[Sir ReGiN]

This blood-thirst really is a terrible, terrible thing to see! So many people cheering over the death of two people you haven't even met or seen, at least not with most of their body parts left.
What the hell have they ever done to you to deserve such an awful disrespect? Your government (I'm talking to the americans) has told you and the rest of the world to hate them, but has never given any reasons except that they're on the opposing side. They may have done some horrible things but they AND their father has also done alot of good for the Iraqi people and I have seen as many Iraqis saying good things about Saddam and his government as I have seen those saying bad things.
The fact that these men died a gruesome death is a terrible thing and I don't think it should be celebrated.
This war, if you can even call it a war, and any war is a terrible thing! Any lives lost in it's name is a tragedy and should be treated as one.

The words are: HUMAN BEING. Just like you.

[johnny]

originally posted by Sir ReGiN They may have done some horrible things but they AND their father has also done alot of good for the Iraqi people and I have seen as many Iraqis saying good things about Saddam and his government as I have seen those saying bad things.

Name one, just one good thing that that family has done for Iraq.

Try talking to Iraqi refugees sometime, ask them how they feel about the death of those two, and i'll guarantee you that you'll see the biggest smile imaginable on a human face.