I need to raise $$$ for bandwidth and ....

Originally posted by Sazerac: quote: Originally posted by Larry_OHF: Originally posted by Ziroc: [qb] Larry, Ziroc was looking for SUGGESTIONS and IDEAS...he did not come up with this on his own. So calm down yourself. You may be rich as Croesus and able to afford to give large bundles of money to Ironworks, but I for one think it is just plain WRONG to have an elitist system based on how much you pay. Know this...there are several people here who are prepared to WALK from IW if such a system goes into effect. I am one of them. -Sazerac

Ya know, this has really degenerated down to the socialists vs the capitalists. Half the people don't want anyone to be able to get anything that they cant get..the other half seem more interested in finding ways to generate cash for Z.

You know, the world is full of people driving better cars than I do...yet I do not begrudge them their car, I drive mine and if I want a better one I will work to acheive this...unfortunately in our non-utopian world, Money is how people do this, because trade and commerce is how we built our civilizations. While I think that the basic IW features (those we have now) should be free if possible, it should not be a damning thing to reward those who can contribute to the very real and necessary financial needs of the place. Z is providing a place for us to share our common love (GAMING) and to also a place to bicker and argue as well...in the mean time...we use his hardware, and someone elses bandwidth (that isnt free, he just wasnt charging US for it) Now that we are consuming significant amounts of a real commodity, one that does cost other people money, I think we should be grateful for what we get for free and thank those that can donate so Z can afford to keep providing us a place to congregate.

One last thought.....some of us are financially better off than others..this is a truth, however I would have to disagree with anyone that is able to reach this board regularly who would call themselves poor. If you want to see poor, cross the boarder into mexico near Tiajuana! There, you will find the TRULY poor. Lets remember, we here no matter our station are really the blessed people of the earth, for we have more than most.

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by MagiK: Ya know, this has really degenerated down to the socialists vs the capitalists. Half the people don't want anyone to be able to get anything that they cant get..the other half seem more interested in finding ways to generate cash for Z.

Disgusting and completely irrelevant comment, MagiK. I for one don't mind donating money, but I strongly oppose to the elitist system idea. Why? Because it will most certainly destroy the friendly "everyone is equal and so is the value of their opinions" atmosphere around here...

Anyways, Ziroc, I've just used Paypal for the first time ever to make a donation, but how do I know the money transfer has been successful?

[ 05-08-2002, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

Sazerac....you will walk if Z does something to try and find a way to make enough money to continue to give us a dcent connection to this place?? I find that very sad and ungrateful. You are free to go and so is everyone. I find that threats toward the owner to be very disappointing in people who I have held in respect here.

I agree that ranks should not be bought, but the special avatars ...I just cannot see that as being unreasonable...by using the logic against the avatars, you would prevent any sale of hats or t-shirts as well..because those whou couldn't afford them would have their feelings hurt....I really dont know how people who think like that manage to make it through the day..I mean people who have things we do not are all around us....

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by Grojlach: Anyways, Ziroc, I've just used Paypal for the first time ever to make a donation, but how do I know the money transfer has been successful?

You will receive an email confirming that Z has accepted the money you sent. I just received one then. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Grojlach: quote: Originally posted by MagiK:

Disgusting and completely irrelevant comment, MagiK. I for one don't mind donating money, but I strongly oppose the elitist system idea. That will most certainly destroy the atmosphere around here.

Anyways, Ziroc, I've just used Paypal for the first time ever to make a donation, but how do I know the money transfer has been successful? [/QUOTE]It was neither disgusting nor irreverant...and why should I revere you? It was an accurate assessment based on 4 pages of posts that I have stayed out of. All I see here are people browbeating on others who are trying to find ways to help Z make money to pay for the bandwidth that we greedy lil net-pigs suck up. While in YOUR universe everything comes free....but here in the real world we are asked to start paying our fair share in measures that we can afford. So don't get all high and mighty with me.

EDIT: My mistake you said IRRELEVANT....it MOST Definatelly WAS relevant, it is what is going on here.

EDIT: 4 pages...so I can't count.

[ 05-08-2002, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by MagiK: Ya know, this has really degenerated down to the socialists vs the capitalists. Half the people don't want anyone to be able to get anything that they cant get..the other half seem more interested in finding ways to generate cash for Z. You know, the world is full of people driving better cars than I do...yet I do not begrudge them their car, I drive mine and if I want a better one I will work to acheive this...unfortunately in our non-utopian world, Money is how people do this, because trade and commerce is how we built our civilizations. While I think that the basic IW features (those we have now) should be free if possible, it should not be a damning thing to reward those who can contribute to the very real and necessary financial needs of the place. Z is providing a place for us to share our common love (GAMING) and to also a place to bicker and argue as well...in the mean time...we use his hardware, and someone elses bandwidth (that isnt free, he just wasnt charging US for it) Now that we are consuming significant amounts of a real commodity, one that does cost other people money, I think we should be grateful for what we get for free and thank those that can donate so Z can afford to keep providing us a place to congregate.

Majik, you may have overgeneralized with your first paragraph (which is probably why Groj got pissed off) but your assessment of the financial reality that we face is correct. Money does make this world go round, and that's a fact, whether we like it or not. That's what this entire thread is about.

But to reiterate what I said before and what Groj said as well, I just think that there are lots of ways of making money to help Z pay for whatever the costs are of running this place without compromising that which brought us all together in the first place - the feeling of equality and mutual respect we all have for each other. Otherwise we will end up killing the goose that lays the golden egg. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 05-08-2002, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

[Beltazar]

Originally posted by Grojlach: Privileges for making donations = bad idea. Plain and simple. Sinee I finally have my PayPal account now I will donate some money really soon, but the last thing I want is gaining some sort of elitist position on this board because of it... And introducing a similar system will definitely create a gap between those who have made a donation and those who didn't.

And introducing a similar system will definitely create a gap between those who have made a donation and those who didn't.
After reading this post, and re-reading that part. I see that this will be true. It will seperate from the people who did pay, and the people who didn't pay. It would be tragic for this to happen.. Hate in the IW community? This would not be great at all. The money would be a good idea still, just don't give privilages. I'm not saying as "I won't give privliages" I mean that, we should just donate for the cause of IW. I think we have the best privilage of all, which is IW and these forums! I think this is more than enough. Well, I hope I don't upset anybody by this, but input would be great.

(And you know, this may be the most brilliant thing I've said ever since joining two years ago, Ironic ain't it?)

[Memnoch]

Anyway, I'm off to bed. I'll reply in the morning (it's 3:20 am here and I need to get up in 4 hours - nothing new).

[Beltazar]

Ok memnoch, Have a good night/morning! See-ya tomorrow/Today!!

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by MagiK: It was neither disgusting nor irreverant...and why should I revere you? It was an accurate assessment based on 5 pages of posts that I have stayed out of. All I see here are people browbeating on others who are trying to find ways to help Z make money to pay for the bandwidth that we greedy lil net-pigs suck up. While in YOUR universe everything comes free....but here in the real world we are asked to start paying our fair share in measures that we can afford. So don't get all high and mighty with me.

Suit yourself. If I understood it right, you were generalizing and brandmarking those who oppose the elitist avatar system as people who don't care about generating money for Ziroc, which is the biggest nonsense possible. You weren't showing any respect for those who don't support the same ideas as you do, again.