Clerics just as powerful as mages - Page 10

Dundee Slaytern · 12-13-2001, 04:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Yggdrasil:
I'm denying it.
This thread is killing my enjoyment of the game. I'm beginning to get the notion that no matter what class I play, the character will never be as powerful or have as much potentential as the Mighty Mage as played by Dundee Slaytern.

No need to get personal. I am only in this thread because I am debating for the Mage side. You can ignore this thread if you like, nobody is being forced to read it.

toriuxik · 12-14-2001, 12:36 PM

The scroll of Antimagic isn't a spell. Its like a potion if I remeber right, so it COULD be done as fast as any spell. If Antimagic thing is cast on a mage with ANY spellslike effects upon them, they are immediatly cancled, and the mage cannot cast more spells. Heck, since we are starting the whole thing awhile in advance for the mage to use triggers ect, the cleric could cast one on himself, then use one on the mage. Done. Mage can't do anything.

I'm pretty sure you can dodge ADHW if your fast enough. I've done it alot. Running out of the area is rather cowardly, but one must do what is neccesary.

The cleric could also use some helper spells that make tensers transformation look like the armour spell.

There are times when a mage could defeat a cleric, and times a cleric could defeat a mage. Let this bikering part end. It doesn't accomplish anything, since none of us are about to say that we're wrong.

Dundee Slaytern · 12-14-2001, 12:42 PM

This must be the third or fourth time I am repeating this already. You cannot cast on an invisible Mage. If the Mage goes invisible while you are casting the scroll, the scroll gets wasted because it gets cancelled.

Yorick · 12-14-2001, 01:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Yggdrasil:
I'm denying it.

This thread is killing my enjoyment of the game. I'm beginning to get the notion that no matter what class I play, the character will never be as powerful or have as much potentential as the Mighty Mage as played by Dundee Slaytern.

Mate you (and others) are missing the subjective nature of the discussion. The Mage is the most powerful for Dundee because that's the style he likes to play. He's found the most success with that class.

That's not to say the most powerful class you can play is, say an Archer. It all depends on your playing style and preference.

I find these sort of arguments ludicrous, as nothing can be proven or quantified. Endless conjecture and hypothesis. Put a veteran Mage player against a veteren Cleric player or Monk player and you may or may not find one class is dominant. What will that prove? That the player is adept at a computer game, not that the class is superior.

Go back to enjoying your game mate. I am. I've nearly finished a Jester (with NPCs) and have just started a solo Stalker. I like the NPCs for the conversant value and variety. Soloing gives a different aspect.

Who cares if it's right, wrong, powerful or not.

Are you having fun?

[img]smile.gif[/img]

toriuxik · 12-14-2001, 01:58 PM

lol so true, that is why I would say that wizard slayer and barbarians have a tie for best class. lol, clerics of helm are next though.

Okay, how is your mage going to know that a cleric is there if they are sanctuaried? Then, breaks sanctuary to hit you with scroll and that beats the crap out of you.

Dundee Slaytern · 12-14-2001, 02:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by toriuxik:
Okay, how is your mage going to know that a cleric is there if they are sanctuaried? Then, breaks sanctuary to hit you with scroll and that beats the crap out of you.

The act of casting the scroll breaks your Sanctuary. The casting time, as you should know, is not instantaneous. IIRC, the casting time is between 2-3. Enough time for the Mage to simply grab his Staff of Magi and go invisible( assuming that he/she has no defensive measures at all in his/her Contingency/Chain Contingency and Minor Spell Sequencer/Spell Sequencer/Spell Trigger), causing your casting to be interrupted, and the scroll to be wasted.

DrakenKorin · 12-14-2001, 08:47 PM

Frankly, if I got hit with the antimagic scroll, I'd just high-tail it out of there with boots of speed. Cowardly, yes, but the wizard isn't a warrior!

Lukivah · 12-15-2001, 02:21 AM

Since this is a cleric mage debate, whats the highest attainable levels of a cleric/mage multiclass in ToB, anyone know? I just want to know if I'm doomed to a measly two level 9/10 spells for the rest of my miserable cleric/mage life!

MornD · 12-15-2001, 04:23 AM

In the context of BG2, there is a mage spell that can damage oppenents while time is stopped. As long as the high level mage can get off time stop, he is safe.

Dundee Slaytern · 12-15-2001, 05:18 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Lukivah:
Since this is a cleric mage debate, whats the highest attainable levels of a cleric/mage multiclass in ToB, anyone know? I just want to know if I'm doomed to a measly two level 9/10 spells for the rest of my miserable cleric/mage life!

The highest level a multiclassed Cleric/Mage can attain is 25/20.

That gives you 2 spell slots for level 9-10 Mage spells.

12-13-2001, 04:04 PM	#91
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 42 Posts: 11,063	quote: Originally posted by Yggdrasil: I'm denying it. This thread is killing my enjoyment of the game. I'm beginning to get the notion that no matter what class I play, the character will never be as powerful or have as much potentential as the Mighty Mage as played by Dundee Slaytern. No need to get personal. I am only in this thread because I am debating for the Mage side. You can ignore this thread if you like, nobody is being forced to read it.

12-14-2001, 01:04 PM	#94
Yorick Very Mad Bird Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam) Age: 53 Posts: 9,246	quote: Originally posted by Yggdrasil: I'm denying it. This thread is killing my enjoyment of the game. I'm beginning to get the notion that no matter what class I play, the character will never be as powerful or have as much potentential as the Mighty Mage as played by Dundee Slaytern. Mate you (and others) are missing the subjective nature of the discussion. The Mage is the most powerful for Dundee because that's the style he likes to play. He's found the most success with that class. That's not to say the most powerful class you can play is, say an Archer. It all depends on your playing style and preference. I find these sort of arguments ludicrous, as nothing can be proven or quantified. Endless conjecture and hypothesis. Put a veteran Mage player against a veteren Cleric player or Monk player and you may or may not find one class is dominant. What will that prove? That the player is adept at a computer game, not that the class is superior. Go back to enjoying your game mate. I am. I've nearly finished a Jester (with NPCs) and have just started a solo Stalker. I like the NPCs for the conversant value and variety. Soloing gives a different aspect. Who cares if it's right, wrong, powerful or not. Are you having fun? [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ http://www.hughwilson.com

12-14-2001, 02:11 PM	#96
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 42 Posts: 11,063	quote: Originally posted by toriuxik: Okay, how is your mage going to know that a cleric is there if they are sanctuaried? Then, breaks sanctuary to hit you with scroll and that beats the crap out of you. The act of casting the scroll breaks your Sanctuary. The casting time, as you should know, is not instantaneous. IIRC, the casting time is between 2-3. Enough time for the Mage to simply grab his Staff of Magi and go invisible( assuming that he/she has no defensive measures at all in his/her Contingency/Chain Contingency and Minor Spell Sequencer/Spell Sequencer/Spell Trigger), causing your casting to be interrupted, and the scroll to be wasted.

12-15-2001, 02:21 AM	#98
Lukivah Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: April 9, 2001 Location: Toms River, NJ, USA Posts: 42	Since this is a cleric mage debate, whats the highest attainable levels of a cleric/mage multiclass in ToB, anyone know? I just want to know if I'm doomed to a measly two level 9/10 spells for the rest of my miserable cleric/mage life! __________________ I \"Know\" Fear

12-15-2001, 04:23 AM	#99
MornD Dungeon Master Join Date: December 3, 2001 Location: Singapore Posts: 62	In the context of BG2, there is a mage spell that can damage oppenents while time is stopped. As long as the high level mage can get off time stop, he is safe. __________________ <img border=\"0\" alt=\"[1drgat1]\" title=\"\" src=\"graemlins/1drgat1.gif\" /> <br />When you were born you alone cried, <br />and everybody else was happy. <br />Live that when you die, <br />you alone are happy, <br />and everybody else is crying.

12-14-2001, 12:36 PM	#92
toriuxik Banned Smartass Join Date: November 26, 2001 Location: Who cares Posts: 216	The scroll of Antimagic isn't a spell. Its like a potion if I remeber right, so it COULD be done as fast as any spell. If Antimagic thing is cast on a mage with ANY spellslike effects upon them, they are immediatly cancled, and the mage cannot cast more spells. Heck, since we are starting the whole thing awhile in advance for the mage to use triggers ect, the cleric could cast one on himself, then use one on the mage. Done. Mage can't do anything. I'm pretty sure you can dodge ADHW if your fast enough. I've done it alot. Running out of the area is rather cowardly, but one must do what is neccesary. The cleric could also use some helper spells that make tensers transformation look like the armour spell. There are times when a mage could defeat a cleric, and times a cleric could defeat a mage. Let this bikering part end. It doesn't accomplish anything, since none of us are about to say that we're wrong.

12-14-2001, 12:42 PM	#93
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 42 Posts: 11,063	This must be the third or fourth time I am repeating this already. You cannot cast on an invisible Mage. If the Mage goes invisible while you are casting the scroll, the scroll gets wasted because it gets cancelled.

12-14-2001, 01:58 PM	#95
toriuxik Banned Smartass Join Date: November 26, 2001 Location: Who cares Posts: 216	lol so true, that is why I would say that wizard slayer and barbarians have a tie for best class. lol, clerics of helm are next though. Okay, how is your mage going to know that a cleric is there if they are sanctuaried? Then, breaks sanctuary to hit you with scroll and that beats the crap out of you.

12-14-2001, 08:47 PM	#97
DrakenKorin The Magister Join Date: July 26, 2001 Location: Eastsound, WA, USA Age: 39 Posts: 120	Frankly, if I got hit with the antimagic scroll, I'd just high-tail it out of there with boots of speed. Cowardly, yes, but the wizard isn't a warrior!

12-15-2001, 05:18 AM	#100
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 42 Posts: 11,063	quote: Originally posted by Lukivah: Since this is a cleric mage debate, whats the highest attainable levels of a cleric/mage multiclass in ToB, anyone know? I just want to know if I'm doomed to a measly two level 9/10 spells for the rest of my miserable cleric/mage life! The highest level a multiclassed Cleric/Mage can attain is 25/20. That gives you 2 spell slots for level 9-10 Mage spells.

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