X-Men!!! Oh man, I just saw the 12:01am session tonight!!

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Beaumanoir: Yes but you're born a mutant, you arn't born a terrorist.

A fair point! According to some, you are also born gay however. And, depending on which state you live in you may or may not share the same rights as straight folks. In fact, the federal government specifically prohibits some things - like federally recognizable gay marriage.

So, the "immutable characteristic" is just one part of the "protected class" test under the constitution - a big part, but clearly not the only part.

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Yes, Al Queda could be a powerful ally. If not for those nasty differences of opinion....

ahh, but the politics of Xavier Institute where known to the gov as people connected with the Institute have testified before Congress.

[Timber Loftis]

Yeah, and Communists testified before Congress as well. That didn't stop McCarthyism's policing of our internal Red Menace.

Okay, all, I've beat this horse to death. Sorry for being such a devil's advocate, but I just hadn't seen anyone address the topic this way before.

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Yeah, and Communists testified before Congress as well. That didn't stop McCarthyism's policing of our internal Red Menace. Okay, all, I've beat this horse to death. Sorry for being such a devil's advocate, but I just hadn't seen anyone address the topic this way before.

Don't stop! I was enjoying the exchange [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ocelot]

Magneto would be my overall vote for the strongest. The movie compliments the character with unique justice, why I was rooting for him to break free like that, I don't know. Looking forward to a sequel soon and Mystic is a Babe!

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Rokenn: Yes I am looking at it from Logan's POV. Otherwise it is impossible to truly judge his actions. Logan and everyone under his protection are part of unprotected and persecuted ethnic minority that just a year earlier had been on the verge of being tagged, sorted and carted off to concentration camps. Logan's own personally experience with the majority is extremely warped as they experimented heavily on him wiping out his memory of the past. He had good reason to use deadly force to protect himself and the others.

To truly understand Logan's POV, you have to go back to the very beginning of the character. He has always been a bit of an "anti-hero" because - unlike all those other spandex clowns - Wolverine does NOT take prisoners. Wolverine is the stereotypical barroom brawler who loves nothing better than a good fight. And when he gets in a fight, he fights to WIN - PERIOD!!! He doesn't believe in subdueing an opponent, he believes in taking them out. He does actually "hold back" when he fights, because if he lets himself go completely, he enters a beserker rage and will attack anything that moves (be it friend of foe). This was the biggest challenge Charles Xavier had when he brought him into the group. Whenever there was a fight, Logan was out to inflict serious harm on the bad guys.

He also worked as spy for the Canadian gov't in the Weapon X Project. He and Sabretooth (along with a few others) were covert operatives. It is standard practice in this profession to kill anybody that gets in your way. Often, the purpose of your entire mission is to kill somebody.

Through the years with the X-Men, Logan has come to think of them as his family - something he never had before. If anybody dares threaten this family - especially the children - they will be facing one angry mutant who simply can NOT be stopped once he gets going.

I agree with Magik - I LOVED his reaction when he heard (and smelled) the soldiers in the house. That's another thing to keep in mind. Logan has heightened senses. He knew the intruders were armed because he could smell the gun oil. He knew they were military because of the sounds made by their shoes. He has extensive experience in this area. He also knew they weren't there to question the mutants - they were there to capture them. Wolverine has the instincts of his namesake when it comes to being captured or caged - the mere thought of it is enough to trigger his beserker rage.

The soldiers couldn't have "pushed" more of Logan's buttons if they had tried. Personally, I felt the scene with the "home invasion" was downplayed a lot from what it would have been in the comics. In the comics, Wolverine would have sliced a MUCH larger swath of destruction through the soldiers. He wouldn't have wasted time stabbing the first soldier, then swinging him around - he would have sliced him from the waist up and gone on to the next one.

BTW - you might be able to tell Wolverine was one of my favorite characters.

[Rokenn]

Nice summation Cerek.

Now here is another one for the crowd:

Are Magneto and General Stryker truly evil, or are they just evolution in action? Could the two species (mutants and normals) truly be able to live side by side in peace with the hugh power imbalance between them? Human history would seem to point to the answer of no, given our past of wiping out any 'lesser species' that is even a remote threat to us. Could it actually be that Magento and his side are the more 'humane' of the two in trying to bring a quick and merciful end to the evolutionary battle. Where is Prof X and his side are stalling in the hope of a peaceful resolution that history tells us is impossible to attain?

[Nanobyte]

I'm not one to hold a stable arguement, but seeing as how Stryker intended to capture the mutants for experimentation (and ultimately, their demise), I don't think motives are a factor. I'm neutral to this matter; I was a little upset Wolverine was killing government ops, but I knew it was justified in regard to the safety of the younger students. This is quite funny actually, I believe this debate can be related with the student movement of the 1960s. Peaceful demonstrations (Kent and Jackson State), that led to a handful of deaths and later the whole thing led to a debate over whether the the troops or the demonstrators should be at blame. Ah well, too much history. [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

[Luvian]

Nightcrawler is blue, and can't change that. That was not a mask. He also has a tail.

And I bet Timber Loftis is the kind of guy who tell kids Santa does not exist.

Congrats on turning an X-Men movie thread into a Terorrist debate. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 05-05-2003, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: Luvian ]

[Gammit]

Liked the movie quite a bit. LOVED to see Nightcrawler and Shadowcat (she was my first 2D crush... wow, I'm a loser).


Gambit rules... always thought his name was one letter off, though.

I want to see Longshot and Dazzler!