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#11 |
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Just for the record, I am NOT against sound ecological policy, I am AGAINST bad science. I am against knee jerk reactionism in a scientific environment. I am against the new age touchy feely tree hugging philosophy that has taken the place of true science. Trees are nice plants and are not people, animals are cool critters but do not have constitutional rights, we as people have a responsibility as individuals not to torture or maim them for no good reason, but we as humans have no requirement to treat them as equals, they are food sources, and part of the ecology but NOT people no matter how badly you want the spottted owls to be citizens in good standing.
I agree we should impact nature as little as possible when gathering resources, but that does not mean that I support NOT using or gathering the resources. Conservatives are not FOR a dirty environment, we are FOR reasoned care when impacting the environment. |
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#12 | |
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What right does that give us to go poplute the earth? And further more What does that give countries the right to break treaties they made? I hardly find any of this cheerful and i do think Magik that for once you should try to see things from a less egoïtic poit of view[/QUOTE]Hi Rikard, umm Im not sure where my point of view is egotistical, since my psyche is not part of the ecology. What right do we have to utilize the world in any way we as humanity sees fit?? I believe it is called emminent domain. Being the TOP of the food chain is what it is all about. At every level in nature you will notice that the critters at the top eat the ones below (ie use the resoources they have available to them). Human beings have all the right they need to use the planet, it is what it is there for. Should we use it wisely? sure, Im all for better efficiency and good science, but you know...as much as every one bitches about emmisions from cars, they are only 10 percent of what they were in the 1960's. I would say a 90% increase in efficiency is quite a good damn achievement. As for poluting the air, ALL of mans atmospheric emmisions for the last few decades don't even come close to equaling even a single major volcanic erruption. Humans are NOT as bad as the reactionaries would have the world believe. Unfortunatley those alarmist types who want government grants and cheritable donations KNOW they need to make everything SOUND like its going to hell in a handbasket. Anyway, Im not knocking your right to believe what you wish Rikard, but I will say this to you...I ...that is ME personally I , have to live in the same world as you, I have to drink the same water, and breathe the same air. I can also see the advances and improvements we have made and I also know that most people alive and protesting today, do not remember the good old days when every house in the USA (practically not litterally) was burning coal or wood to heat with, or the clouds of coal smoke that would fill the valleys.....The country is better now than it was then as far as polution is concerned not worse. Is it a utopia. No, ill agree there, but lets get our heads out of the political propaganda that is environmentalism these days and stick to the facts. We are getting better, we can't change things overnight, and we do not need to get all radical and bent outta shape to do better. [ 04-15-2002, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ] |
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#13 |
Beholder
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Location: Het Hertogdom Gelre!!!!!
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First of all i don't remember a time when any usa house was burning anything coz I'm not a American and as such i think it's a showing of disrespect to the rest of the world to say "Hey Kyoto was nice and all but that threaty we signed, well forget about we ain't doing that"
Second ofcourse you can continue to burn coal and oil to make engergy but why do that when you can use solar power and wind power aswell? or Wave energy which is one of the biggest sources of energy on this planet? WE should start the use of durable energy now so that WE won't get stuck with the problem of lack of fosil fuel sources. And what you sayd about Emissions being lower then the 60's I'd wanna see where you got that from since there are a LOT more cars now then there were before and not to mention a lot of new countries who are just setting up their own industrial revolution
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#14 |
Dracolisk
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well I say **** Oil, petrolium, and natural recourses all together! Lets go to the REAL Kyoto, the one in Japan, and purchase us some Electric Hondas and Toyotas!
And don't give me any of that "But they give off nuclear waste and the stearing wheel is on the left side" gobbleedegük... |
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#15 | |
Beholder
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#16 | |
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#17 |
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Rikard, I know you are not american, but you should have understood my point since all of europe and england were once even worse than the USA was with all of the coal smoke in the air. My point is, we have cleaned up our act by huge leaps and bounds since the 1800's. Yes there have been other types of polution but they are being addressed too.
Now about signing the Accords, the USA never agreed to the accords. Our political system requires that congress AND the president agree, to anything before we have a legal authority to sign and comit to a treaty. This did not happen, so pardon us if you all don't understand our political process, but I can assure you the representatives who were running the accord talks knew FULL well what the deal was. As for cleaner air than in the 60's & 70's, not hard to document there there are plenty of pictoral/photographic and research studies shopwing that the cars have lowered their emmisions to a fraction of what they once were. Yes the number of cars has increased, but each one is by far cleaner than ever in history. I remember once in the early 70's flying into Pittsburgh on a prop-job commuter plane, the air was so cruddy brown you could not see the runway from a thousand feet up, now days our air is much much clearer and cleaner. Again please realize Im not saying don't work to develop newer sources of energy, but please be reasonble in how you impose your restrictions on everyone else. Maybe you can afford a $75,000 electric car but most peopple cannot....AND if you use the electric cars, remember you will have to generate the electricity to charge them..which requires energy plants which cause polution which.......well you get the gist... There isnt any free lunch. Solar and fusion some day will work, but as I said, the tech isnt there right now, don't believe everything you see coming out of holywood. [ 04-16-2002, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ] |
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#18 |
Beholder
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Magik The reason Why amerika did not sign the Kyoto treaty was that the republicans didn't want the democrats to have signed an important threaty...
Partypolitics not logical thinking prevent signing...
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#19 | |
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