01-25-2002, 07:16 PM | #31 |
Ninja Storm Shadow
Join Date: March 27, 2001
Location: Northport,Alabama, USA
Age: 62
Posts: 3,577
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Conan, The fact that the Bush administration did not give any help to Enron shows that campaign finance reform is not needed when we the people elect honest men and women!!!!!
Fable, who gives a cares if 12 , 20 , or 2,000 were former Enron execs. Show me where they gave any favors to Enron!!!! The FACT that there were 12 former Enron execs and they none did anything illegal, or uneithical on Enron's behalf testifies against you. Again I ask what was done on behalf of Enron?
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Crustiest of the OLD COOTS "Donating mirrors for years to help the Liberal/Socialist find their collective rear-ends, because both hands doesn't seem to be working. Veitnam 61-65:KIA 1864 66:KIA 5008 67:KIA 9378 68:KIA 14594 69:KIA 9414 70:KIA 4221 71:KIA 1380 72:KIA 300 Afghanistan2001-2008 KIA 585 2009-2012 KIA 1465 and counting Davros 1 Much abliged Massachusetts |
01-25-2002, 07:29 PM | #32 |
Quintesson
Join Date: March 17, 2001
Location: Where I am.
Posts: 1,089
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quote: Why doesn't anybody actually read what I write? I specifically said the Bush administration has no culpability in the matter. Nor did I say that there were 12 former Enron executives in Bush's top administrative team, but that 12 of Bush's top administrative team included former Enron executives, and those who have a great deal of Enron stock. I specifically wrote, and I repeat: And for all that I think he's a poor president in many respects, I don't think he deserves this. Got that? Not that Dubbyah deserves to be jailed, or flogged, or covered with tar and feathers. I stated approximately the opposite. Sheesh. For what it's worth, here's the first post of mine which you missed reading. This gives what I think may be the reasons behind the current furor over Enron and Bush: Galadria1, unfortunately, the Republican Congress under the last administration practiced a new smear tactic of deliberately demanding Clinton's resignation with every piece of news that implicated relatives or friends of the then-president. It was previously customary to attack a president's political positions; with Clinton, all-out war was declared upon his personal life, as well. I've read one exhaustively researched book that quoted samples from every dead dog that was laid at Clinton's doorstep. It was a carefully orchestrated campaign, costing in the multi-millions of dollars, and with a goal of never letting a day go by without having some new dirt to offer. Since the Republicans reset the rules of engagement with Clinton, the Democrats feel justified in engaging in a feeding frenzy where Dubbyah is concerned. They're not as well organized and they lack the sheer viciousness of some of the key members of the former cabal (like the previous Republican House Whip, Knute Gingrich), but they're still new at this game. For better or worse, I expect to see an escalation of these tactics when circumstances permit, and whether Dubbyah deserves it, or not. And for all that I think he's a poor president in many respects, I don't think he deserves this. |
01-25-2002, 08:36 PM | #33 |
Ninja Storm Shadow
Join Date: March 27, 2001
Location: Northport,Alabama, USA
Age: 62
Posts: 3,577
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quote: I quoted in-total then I'll deal with the specifics. JDH Fable Wrote: no less than 12 high-ranking Bush administration members either had high positions of authority working for Enron previously, or are currently heavy stockholders. (Statement repeated in another post using slightly differant words) Then Fable wrote:And it leaves one to question the balance of the Bush administration, whose view of commerce appears tilted entirely on the side of large corporate business. Now I don't know where you come from , but using the words "And it leaves one to question " at the end of an arguement is concidered a conclusion. In most places that use the English language. I did read what you wrote. and I wrote: who cares if there were 12, 20 , or 2,000 former execs. Now what was that you said to Magik about agreeing/wrong and disagreeing/right Nice try on the cutting and pasting of two seperate posts to cover your rear-end, that was a good move, showing skill and adaptive argueing (sp?) abilites! But please don't try to play a nit-picky symantics (sp?) game, it belittles the user's Intelect! that kind of tactic makes the user look like they are "book smart but have no common sense" Your skills remind me of former "opponent" (writen tongue-in-cheek) that I enjoyed discussing and agueing with untill they commited the error of lying. so, instead of exposing the lie and humilating them I choose to no-longer discus anything with them. I'd hate to see that with you, I think we could have a lot of great "arguements" (T-i-C) with the potientual to rock the foundations of "Hale" Itself.
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Crustiest of the OLD COOTS "Donating mirrors for years to help the Liberal/Socialist find their collective rear-ends, because both hands doesn't seem to be working. Veitnam 61-65:KIA 1864 66:KIA 5008 67:KIA 9378 68:KIA 14594 69:KIA 9414 70:KIA 4221 71:KIA 1380 72:KIA 300 Afghanistan2001-2008 KIA 585 2009-2012 KIA 1465 and counting Davros 1 Much abliged Massachusetts |
01-25-2002, 08:52 PM | #34 |
Red Dragon
Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Virginia, USA
Age: 63
Posts: 1,512
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John, its getting silly how much it costs to run a competative campain anymore. Good people are not being able to compete with these soft-monies. Representatives and so on use up to millions of dollars on their campains and staff. Scrutinys, media crap, and concerns about family run just as deep. I beleive the people should get the "donation" moneys twards infrastructures and social programs. Somehow. I dont know.. seems like such a huge waste of homeland assets.
Its not that Americans elect bad people..not by a long shot. We have talked about checks and balances in the past concerning elected officials. Most good and a couple not so good. I continue to vote [img]smile.gif[/img] I can tell you that threw this major bankruptcy no one here is going to go against some kind of regulation in soft-monies. Its turning out to be the scape goat to try to keep people investing and the machine rolling. Confidence is running a little short out here lately. The big K takes the bite and congress gets younger and younger every year...Strom is ailing bad also.. and GB is never to be seen around here. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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*\\Conan/* |
01-25-2002, 08:57 PM | #35 |
Quintesson
Join Date: March 17, 2001
Location: Where I am.
Posts: 1,089
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quote: In other words, you can't deal with the fact that you misread what I wrote. Unfortunately for you, the words are there: and people can decide on their own, using logic, whether "open to question" as you state is the same thing as "we've come to a conclusion." Though you do have faith in achieving some amazing conclusions. How you arrived at: The FACT that there were 12 former Enron execs and they none did anything illegal, or uneithical on Enron's behalf testifies against you. ...in your post to me, when I had previously written about the attempts to hammer Bush with Enron: And for all that I think he's a poor president in many respects, I don't think he deserves this. ...is truly of that faith that surpasseth understanding. Can't you see that you accused me of one thing above, when I had already written the opposite? I'm not a debater, so if you want to play shadow games with me, you'll probably win. But because all the words in this case are out in the open--my post, your comments, my response--I don't think the game are going to matter. Read what I wrote, and stop trying to imagine me saying the opposite of what I did. Or making me out to be a supporter of the "let's club Bush with Enron" society, when I'm decidedly not. [ 01-25-2002: Message edited by: fable ] |
01-25-2002, 09:11 PM | #36 |
Red Dragon
Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Virginia, USA
Age: 63
Posts: 1,512
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fable, what the??
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*\\Conan/* |
01-25-2002, 09:25 PM | #37 |
Ninja Storm Shadow
Join Date: March 27, 2001
Location: Northport,Alabama, USA
Age: 62
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quote: You're right about the cost Conan!!!! I fear that the excuse of Enron's supossed influence will be used to write bad legislation ie: McCain/ whoever where individual businesses/corporations can not give but labor unions can. Or a law where an individual citizen or group of citizens can't pay for advertising for/against a bill/policy/canidate. From what I hear coming from the campaign refromers (granted it is from the news media)is "see Enron had paid all this money for influence" without a shread of evidence there was any influence. Refrom because of cost, ok, but not for nonexsisting influence we have laws that cover that already. And in this case they seem to have been followed.
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Crustiest of the OLD COOTS "Donating mirrors for years to help the Liberal/Socialist find their collective rear-ends, because both hands doesn't seem to be working. Veitnam 61-65:KIA 1864 66:KIA 5008 67:KIA 9378 68:KIA 14594 69:KIA 9414 70:KIA 4221 71:KIA 1380 72:KIA 300 Afghanistan2001-2008 KIA 585 2009-2012 KIA 1465 and counting Davros 1 Much abliged Massachusetts |
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