01-05-2002, 01:33 AM | #1 |
Ironworks Moderator
Join Date: February 28, 2001
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I was surprised at how many of us actually play or have played AD&D. [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img] So this is a question for hardcore (and not so hardcore) PnP AD&Ders out there (preferably those who have DM'd as well.
Do you think it would be possible for some of the more powerful Dukes of Hell (Asmodeus, Baalzebul, etc) or Demon Princes (Demogorgon, Orcus etc) to be more powerful or at least on par with some of the lesser/intermediate Faerunian deities? I'm particularly interested in where you all think Lolth would sit in terms of power, seeing as she's an intermediate goddess in the Faerunian pantheon but as a demoness traditionally is ranked below Demogorgon, Orcus and Graz'zt. Another example is Tiamat, who is ruler of the first plane of Hell, but is also classified as a lesser goddess in the FRCS. She also happens to be a Greater Power in Krynn. The way I see it, this is how the totem pole would be:
So what do you think? Have it got it totally wrong? I've had this argument at the WotC website and so would be curious to read your replies. Edit: Just edited the list to include Supreme Powers. [ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: Memnoch ] |
01-05-2002, 01:48 AM | #2 |
Jack Burton
Join Date: October 16, 2001
Location: PA
Age: 43
Posts: 5,421
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well... it all depends on where they fight... Lloth is an lesser deity in Faerun, but I believe in Greyhawk she is an intermediate power, and on her home plane in the abyss she is much more powerful, I guess it all depends on where you fight them... if a demon prince fought a deity (granted many demon princes are worshipped as gods by various humanoid creatures) and they shared a home plane the deity ould annihilate the demon.
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01-05-2002, 02:00 AM | #3 |
Ironworks Moderator
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[img]graemlins/reallyroll.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/reallyroll.gif[/img] n I think the mind boggles.. LOL.. I don't know them all well enough for that kind of delineation.. but yours looks good.. [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img] Uh.. I gotta ask... you taking medication, Geniebabe? Or uh.. drinking lunch, maybe? [img]tongue.gif[/img] HAHAHAHA
Cloudy
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01-05-2002, 02:45 AM | #4 |
Jack Burton
Join Date: March 21, 2001
Location: Philippines, but now Harbor City Sydney
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bah, none should speculate with the GODs for no mere MORTAL could ever understand them... it gives me a headache thinking about it... [img]smile.gif[/img]
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01-05-2002, 06:05 AM | #5 |
Red Dragon
Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Holiday, FL
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According to the dieties & demigods book, the previous answer about location is correct. Whoever (or is it whomever?) is on home ground usually has the upper hand. This is in regards to fairly even power distribution. I mean, you aren't going to have a Larva Worm fighting Asmodeus hardly anywhere that the Larva Worm is going to have the upper hand. LOL. Each movement away from the entities home plane weakens the entity slightly. That's why Gods are so weak (if you can call them weak) in the Prime Material Plane. They normally have to gate across as an avatar or some other manifestation. When the manifestation is destroyed, the main connection is severed and the entity is recoiled completely back to their home plane. No true death occurs. If you are on the home plane; however, the entity can be slain as they have nowhere to recoil back to (unless they gate the hell out of there. LOL) Not sure about the breakdown that you have selected though, but it doesn't seem unreasonable. We used to have similar discussions during our PnP meetings. "Man, my God is better than yours. No he isnt. My God would kick your God's ass. Dude, No way. You smoking crack or what?" LOL. Thanks for bringing that up. That was a good memory.
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01-05-2002, 06:10 AM | #6 |
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The ability to draw power from worshippers and the ability to manifest multiple avatars are two of the things that really differentiate deities from abyssal/infernal powers IMHO.
It's an interesting topic and one that I've been thinking about for a few days now. |
01-05-2002, 09:49 AM | #7 |
Zhentarim Guard
Join Date: March 9, 2001
Location: Cranebrook, NSW, Australia
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I think your order of power is pretty right. In the new faerun a gods powers depend on the number of followers they have. Tiamet would probably have more power than some of the other demon princes because she is a god. This would hold true for Lolth too. While asmodeus would probably be more powerful than her physically if they had a fight, she's more powerful in the prime material plane and has more influence because she's worshipped by a whole race native to the prime material. So Tiamat and Lolth are probably just above the other demon princes and arch devils due to being deities, esp considering Lolth is an intermediate godess and described in the FRCS.
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01-07-2002, 08:53 PM | #8 |
Ironworks Moderator
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Good point. Lloth, being a deity in the FR, would also be able to manifest an avatar, I would say.
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01-08-2002, 01:15 AM | #9 |
Galvatron
Join Date: March 29, 2001
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Ahhh...
I am not sure, I think yours is right Memnoch. There is a manual of the planes out now, I dont know if that will help or not. I never really got into the order of higher powers. I realy only used them once or twice in pnp adventures, but it seems in my storys I tend to use them quite a bit..
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01-08-2002, 04:19 AM | #10 |
Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess
Join Date: March 1, 2001
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quote: The problem is the kinship of the deities, Mystra herself has been killed twice, but both times came back. Now her evil sister has created the shadow weave to be granted more powers, though her good sister is more of a force in herself to help Mystra, the Gods have always fought for more powers. And well everyone knows that the second in command might be gready for power and oppurtunity... Interesting topic Memny! Would be nice to see what they said at the other board! [img]smile.gif[/img]
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