09-11-2003, 11:23 PM | #101 | |||||
40th Level Warrior
Join Date: October 29, 2001
Location: Western Wilds of Michigan
Posts: 11,752
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They pay for the material, and you can use it (read/listen) at your convenience, if they're interested in providing it. With few exceptions, you don't get to pick the songs, and they don't run the same songs all day. Quote:
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Is reverse engineering of sandwiches prohibited by law? I honestly have no clue. I do believe that if you started selling your version of their sandwich, they'd have a discussion with you in front of some lawyers or a judge. I suspect that your cost would be more than theirs for producing the sandwiches, even if it's only measured in terms of unused food going bad. They give you two tomato slices per side; what do you do with the rest of the tomato? Quote:
As for the recipe, think about all that they're selling. You're not getting the rest of it. And you are paying someone (unless you live on a farm or grow your own vegetables, meat, dairy, and grain) for the materials. And the materials tend to go bad in short order (with the exception of Twinkies), so you can't just stock up on them and use them later. Your friends can make sandwiches, but remember, they still don't get the rest of what Subway provides. When you steal music, you are getting everything the artist provides. That's part of the reason why I agree with Luvian that the RIAA needs to provide more than just music. It's also why I believe that the only sustainable competitive advantage for a company is its personnel -- the people who work there. Anything else -- technology, process, procedures, patents -- can be duplicated or bought. It's the people and what they bring that makes the difference, and that can't be bought. It has to be earned. You've almost got me on the sandwiches, but I'm still not convinced.
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09-12-2003, 12:14 AM | #102 | |
Ironworks Moderator
Join Date: June 27, 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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That's rewarding people who bought the product, and it's a lot more efficient than suing those that got it for free.
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09-12-2003, 08:41 AM | #103 |
40th Level Warrior
Join Date: October 29, 2001
Location: Western Wilds of Michigan
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But what do you register? Just a number? What prevents someone else from just using the same number? User ID and password? I gave that to my friend as well. Register to a specific machine through CPU ID? What happens in an upgrade? Track by TCP/IP address? We use DHCP, so there's a range.
I don't believe there's a simple and easy way to ensure compliance with today's technology. You can get back to using hardware dongles that can't easily be copied, but that's incredibly expensive compared to the street value of a CD, for example. And if you needed a dongle for every CD... imagine the hassle of trying to keep track of them. I think it's a good idea in theory, but I don't see where the practice holds out.
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09-12-2003, 12:58 PM | #104 | |||
Hathor
Join Date: February 18, 2002
Location: Vienna
Age: 42
Posts: 2,248
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. The point is that I steal their valued recipe while I do the work myself. As I do with MP3. Only that the work for copying a song is a lot easier than making a sandwich. Why this IS ACTUALLY different from MP3 Because Subway generally doesn't charge for the recipe (which isn't THAT great) but for the work. So why do the musicians? Because coming up with the recipe is the hard part not bruning/pressing a CD. Copyright laws however were not made to give artists the power to hide their works from public and only show them for a fee BUT to ensure the public sees them and many more by blocking others to make money with it. They are there so nobody steals your invention/recipe/song screws you over and gets rich while you get nothing/nada/zero. If I listen to your song on the radio I'll never get more than you. Even if I copy it and listen to it all day long I will NEVER get more out of it than the actual artist. Unless I decide to USE that song to sell it or to write another one or to use it in a speech I will never get rich by listening to that song. I've just saved some money like I did at Subway. . I think that monetary gain issue is the main focus. If someone downloads 5000 songs from the net to listen to them at home and to have friends marvel at his huge collection but never actually sells any of them or uses them otherwise to gain money, then it is rather unlikely he will see the wrong of his ways. He simply took what was there for the taking and conveniently it is still there for the taking for everyone else. So in his mind "nobody gets hurt". If he starts selling the stuff he will soon realize that he is majorly screwing over the songwriters by selling stuff he didn't create but just took and he will of course be puzzled about screwing the kids he sells to because "wasn't that stuff free for the taking?". . So in the end it IS like my Subway example except that Subway does not, never did, and never will care if I make my sandwiches at home because their main providing is something else. Maybe they would care if I had a coke-machine at home and a Sub-O-matic a.k.a SubAmp (just download a recipe from the Internet and this amazing machine will make you a Sub) but that's something for Picard&Co who have no money anyway. ADD] Uh, you just made it to Half-Orc. Now I'm scared [ 09-12-2003, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: Faceman ]
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09-12-2003, 01:17 PM | #105 | |
Ironworks Moderator
Join Date: June 27, 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Same things for Maxis and the SIMS. You can register your serial on their website to visit the forums and get goodies, and once you register a serial, nobody else can register it. And yes, when you register your serial you also get to chose a login and password. The serial is then associated with your account and no one else can use it.
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09-12-2003, 04:59 PM | #106 |
Ironworks Moderator
Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Midlands, South Carolina
Age: 48
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09-12-2003, 06:20 PM | #107 | |
White Dragon
Join Date: April 1, 2001
Location: UK
Age: 44
Posts: 1,893
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I draw a parallel between the current wave of media piracy and the US's prohibition laws early last century. The result? Bootlegging, and bootleggers! And, in the end, the US decided to repeal those laws, for very good reasons. Now, this isn't exactly the same situation. The music labels aren't banning music, they're just controlling the price for it. But they have got to find a way to change and adapt with the times - and respond to the will of the customers they are losing. Just putting a lid on things and deluding themselves into thinking they can beat this with lawsuits is folly. If they don't fall in and respond to the will of the consumer then they will die out. Shame about your job, Chewbacca. But when they invented cars, I'm sure every horse breeder felt the same way.
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09-13-2003, 07:58 AM | #108 | |
Manshoon
Join Date: December 22, 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Age: 47
Posts: 215
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As far as comparing music to cars tho... the difference here is that a lot of the artists that have songs being traded online SUPPORT them being downloaded. Do I need to remind everyone about how Napster had free concerts set up in their benefit that featured bands that were HUGE at the time? Bands and music fans alike support file sharing. But, cars are a bad parallel to draw to sharing music, because cars aren't art. Let's use a more accurate comparison: books and artwork. How many authors do you think are pissed off that their books are being transcripted and shared on kazaa for free, or all the pictures that are available to download? And how many stories and poems and quotes are being passed around without even giving the author proper credit, not just online but all over the world? Plagerism(sp?) and blatent stealing of ideas and stories, how often does this happen? How many art pieces are scanned and used all over the world every day for free? Pictures taken and edited in Photoshop and used to create 'new' art. Do we hear any of these book editors whining or artists complaining that they're not being treated fairly? I seriously doubt that you've paid for every single piece of art that you have on your computer, and I doubt even more that you can name or give proper credit to the artist who created it. Music isn't that different except that the people who run the industry are more greedy than other industries. I'm not sure why... but it seems to be true. Regardless of what the artists say, the music industry is out to shut these file sharing programs down, even if the musicians themselves support it. On a side note; Does anyone know the name of the person who wrote 'Itsy Bitsy Spider?' Seriously, anyone? Can anyone at all tell me who wrote some of the greatest nursery rhymes that have been sung for hundreds of years, and will continue to be sung for hundreds more? The stories that have been passed down for generation after generation; The Three Little Pigs and Humpty Dumpty and Old King Cole and The Princess and the Pea and Goldilocks... who wrote these? No one remembers anymore. But someone did write them, and shared them so that other people could appreciate them and remember them too. They wrote them and shared them not for money, but because they loved doing it and loved retelling the stories over and over. That's what should be important to the artists, having their music heard and appreciated and remembered... anyone complaining about not getting paid or whining that file sharing is so horrible is in the industry for the wrong reasons. These artists now have a way to have their music heard by people around the world in a matter of days, where it used to take years to get books printed and distributed and have the same availability, and they complain about it? However; I don't see book companies picketing libraries to be shut down for sharing their stuff for free. I've never once seen an art gallery that went out of business because the starving artists weren't selling their paintings. (remember that phrase? 'starving artist?' ever wonder WHY they were called that? [img]tongue.gif[/img] )The general impression I've gotten has been that these other artists are more pleased with seeing their message or art or story or poem spread to more people, rather than they are with selling it to everyone who likes it. And their managers or editors or whatever seem to understand that. Musicians seem to be content to be out playing concerts and making music and reaching the fans and doing what they love for a living, and even without the record industry, I'm sure they'd still tour and continue to do it. It's just that the record execs. have gotten so used to there being no competition that they got comfortable and cocky and raised cd prices to insane heights so they could live a little MORE comfortably, buy a few MORE cars. The record stores had no choice but to jack up THEIR prices in turn just to keep making the same profit as they were before, so they could afford to live. Music fans got pissed and decided they'd had enough and were going to take it into their own hands. They had the technology, they'd been dubbing records to tapes and tapes to tapes and most recently burning cds. All these means to record music they had access to had already existed, they didn't CREATE the cd burners or the dual cassette decks to dub tapes. But what else did the people who created these things think they'd be used for? (duh) So fans wanted more than the selection of music their close friends had, they wanted more to copy than their older brother's AC/DC tapes, and someone had the idea to send files a few song files to a friend in an email. That friend did the same to someone else. Sooner or later, this idea caught on and Napster came into being to save everyone the trouble AND expand their options. We all know what happened after this, right? It's been going on for years already, and who reading this DOESN'T own a few dubbed movies or tapes or burned cds? The record industry didn't care until it became a threat, and ever since they've been trying to fight a battle against something they knew was happening all along, and knew was only getting worse. It's their own faults for letting it get this far, and now that they see their fancy lifestyles slipping away and they know they messed up, they're clinging desperately to everything they know and hoping this somehow fixes it all. I can't blame the stores that sell the music, and I do feel bad that so many people lost their jobs over this. But, in all honestly that's the way it's going to be. Even if all the free file sharing programs get shut down, they're already popping up new ones, and file sharing programs that require small payments to download songs. Record stores would have closed anyway sooner or later, so don't blame it all on the people sharing files. Because like I said, we've been doing it since the first tape deck with a 'record' button hit the stores, and we'll keep doing it as long as technology allows. And that is the LONGEST post I ever typed anywhere, so I'm shutting up for now. Thanks for reading. [ 09-13-2003, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: 605 ]
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09-13-2003, 09:19 AM | #109 | |
Ironworks Moderator
Join Date: March 1, 2001
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Related info.
TechTV lists an updated hit-list of ISPs on alert, and the names of people about to get in trouble. Other useful info to be found here as well. And this is quoted from a website that I cannot tell you the name of, because I do not want to be accused of giving anyone access to illegal websites. I found this an hour ago while searching for news. This is a copy-paste of the front page news that they have on their website. Quote:
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09-13-2003, 09:48 AM | #110 |
Ironworks Moderator
Join Date: March 1, 2001
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In order to make as much news as possible available to our IW public, see this link, which is a news site for one of the file-sharing websites. There's alot of good reading there.
http://www.gnutellanews.com
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