Fighting terrorism

[Faceman]

Religion is not the root of the problem - Fanatically misinterpreted religion used as an ideology is.
Religion (even if fanatically misinterpreted) is also a way of increasing personal contentness and quality of life.
Loss of religion makes people unhappy (unless they have a substitute like rationalism or their own philosophical ideology).
On a sidenote: Even Atheists are religous in some way. They do BELIEVE that there is no god (opposed to agnosticists who just don't care)
So where was I? Loss of religion (which is partly socially forced on them)makes many people unhappy in the Western countries -> so they go compensate by buying something or they try to reaquire religion and fall easy victims to a cult.
But I am getting off my point which was: Religion makes people happy (on the average) so it is the perfect instrument to transport an ideology. It's not that the Islam is a bad religion, it's that there are people who misuse it to transport their evil agenda. After a while this agenda can become attached to the religion and many followers will still practice it even if the originators have long since gone and the religion was not intended to be that way in the first place.

P.S.: Hope you get my point, if not I should clarify it in a later post I'm to tired to think now (4AM at my place)

[Grendal]

ok I must REALLY need that course
Stratos...Point 1 you made....I WATCHED the lady say that, Im not makin it up.
Point 2 you made....I never said that hunger made them terrorists. I
said they were looking for FOOD not a PURPOSE
in life (well ok maybe looking for food IS
their purpose in life)
Point 3 you made....Sorry just dont agree with that at all. A better
lifestyle WONT happen untill AFTER the political
problems have been worked out NOT before.
Point 4 you made....I never said that their physiology was different
just they way they THINK. Example 1: The Taliban
THOUGHT it was ok to treat thier women like dogs,
Where as I dont THINK its proper (and niether did
the rest of the world) Example 2: Obviously you
and I THINK differantly. Example 3: While in
Mexico I saw a a truck with about 13 teens to
pre-teens riding in the back. I (as well as the
RCMP) dont THINK that is very safe, but they
THOUGHT it was just fine.
If you cant see that differant people, cultures and races THINK differantly, well maybe thats the whole problem.

[Grendal]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stratos:
QUOTE]I might be wrong here, but I don't think that any mothers would breed/raise their sons (and sometimes daughters) to become suicide-bombers or terrorist. As a matter of fact, mothers are the most protective people I know of. To become a suicide-bomber or a terrorist is a choice made by the individual and not their parents.

FOOTNOTE: you are a 31 year old woman on the WestBank. Your grandfather was killed 15 yrs ago in an Isreali incursion. 3 of your 4 brothers were also killed in conflict. Your father is in a wheelchair and needs a bag tied to his leg because he has no intestines left after being caught in his own organizations suicide plot against "the enemy". Your husband mysteriously dissappeared seven months ago. Your best friend of 17 years was killed in the cross fire of a skirmish two weeks ago while buying toilet paper. Your 10 year old son is outside right now being taught by your brother in law how to use a 31 year old AK-47. Your baby is warm in your arms suckling and you are thinking "how am I going to get back at those bastards for killing my family".

[ 06-26-2003, 04:17 AM: Message edited by: Grendal ]

[Stratos]

Originally posted by Grendal: [QB] ok I must REALLY need that course Stratos...Point 1 you made....I WATCHED the lady say that, Im not makin it up.[QB]

Well I've never seen or heard about it, but if you have then who am I to argue

Point 3 you made....Sorry just dont agree with that at all. A better lifestyle WONT happen untill AFTER the political problems have been worked out NOT before.

I too was refering to the political problems and not the materialistic ones. By driving around freely I mean have access to most places like you and I have in our respective countries and not risking being pulled over by soldiers just because you look suspicios. Or give children the chance to go to school without risking being dragged into a conflict on the streets between police/soldiers and stone-throwers. All these things are a part of the political problem.

Point 4 you made....I never said that their physiology was different just they way they THINK. Example 1: The Taliban THOUGHT it was ok to treat thier women like dogs, Where as I dont THINK its proper (and niether did the rest of the world)

And neither do I, but we can't escape the fact that many Westerners treat the wives like dogs as well and they live in liberal democratic countries. The problem with women abuse is a man vs. woman problem and not entirely a cultural or religiuos problem. I'm sure you could find men in Afghanistan that treated their wive with the respect they deserve but there are also a-holes, just like in our part of the world. And it's also a matter of how you choose to view things; a woman who is forced to stay at home almost 24/7, can only leave if she wears a Bhurka and only in company with a male relative won't find that very oppressing if she thinks that that's the way things should be. The example with the Talibans is also a extreme example due to the rigid religios rules imposed on everyone around them. The Palestinians don't have most of these rules and some of the "richer" terrorists have the chance to move to another country if they don't like the laws in the one they're in.

Example 2: Obviously you and I THINK differantly.

I haven't ruled out that possibility either and how fun would the world be of everyone thought the same.

Example 3: While in Mexico I saw a a truck with about 13 teens to pre-teens riding in the back. I (as well as the RCMP) dont THINK that is very safe, but they THOUGHT it was just fine. If you cant see that differant people, cultures and races THINK differantly, well maybe thats the whole problem.

First of all, enlighten me: What is RCMP? Second of all, does them being Mexicans automaticly make them think that having 13 teens in the back of a truck is safe. Perhaps they're poor, have a big family and only have one that one truck. And perhaps ( since I've never been there) info about traffic security haven't reached the broad public in Mexico. And surely you can't make such a assumption on this individual case. And third and last, people think differently: Yes. Cultures think differently: OK, I agree to some extent but not to the extent that some makes terrorists and some don't. That answer is to easy and I also strongly believe that any of us in our part of the world could do what they do if we were in the same situation: That we have a different culture than theirs isn't that important. Then how would you explain people like Timothy McVeigh, he grew up in our part of the world and with our culture. Races thinks differently: Now, this is completely new to me. Do you have a link to a reliable source on this matter?

[Xen]

I personally think that terorrisem cannot be stopped. It can be slowed down but not stopped,becuase there will always be some crazy people running arund and blowing things up.

My 2 cents...

[Stratos]

[quote]Originally posted by Grendal:

Originally posted by Stratos: QUOTE]I might be wrong here, but I don't think that any mothers would breed/raise their sons (and sometimes daughters) to become suicide-bombers or terrorist. As a matter of fact, mothers are the most protective people I know of. To become a suicide-bomber or a terrorist is a choice made by the individual and not their parents. FOOTNOTE: you are a 31 year old woman on the WestBank. Your grandfather was killed 15 yrs ago in an Isreali incursion. 3 of your 4 brothers were also killed in conflict. Your father is in a wheelchair and needs a bag tied to his leg because he has no intestines left after being caught in his own organizations suicide plot against "the enemy". Your husband mysteriously dissappeared seven months ago. Your best friend of 17 years was killed in the cross fire of a skirmish two weeks ago while buying toilet paper. Your 10 year old son is outside right now being taught by your brother in law how to use a 31 year old AK-47. Your baby is warm in your arms suckling and you are thinking "how am I going to get back at those bastards for killing my family".

And after all these tragedies, would the mother really want to send another one of her sons to the grave?

[Grendal]

Sorry Stratos for some reason I thought you were in Canada..RCMP = Royal Canadian Mounted Police

[Animal]

Originally posted by Faceman: Religion is not the root of the problem - Fanatically misinterpreted religion used as an ideology is. Religion (even if fanatically misinterpreted) is also a way of increasing personal contentness and quality of life. Loss of religion makes people unhappy (unless they have a substitute like rationalism or their own philosophical ideology). On a sidenote: Even Atheists are religous in some way. They do BELIEVE that there is no god (opposed to agnosticists who just don't care) So where was I? Loss of religion (which is partly socially forced on them)makes many people unhappy in the Western countries -> so they go compensate by buying something or they try to reaquire religion and fall easy victims to a cult. But I am getting off my point which was: Religion makes people happy (on the average) so it is the perfect instrument to transport an ideology. It's not that the Islam is a bad religion, it's that there are people who misuse it to transport their evil agenda. After a while this agenda can become attached to the religion and many followers will still practice it even if the originators have long since gone and the religion was not intended to be that way in the first place. P.S.: Hope you get my point, if not I should clarify it in a later post I'm to tired to think now (4AM at my place)

Okay, religion makes people happy. Whatever, everyone's entitled to their beliefs.

So what happens when the big bad ogre shows up at the doorstep telling you that you're religion is wrong, and you need to change? Terrorism.

[Animal]

Originally posted by Stratos: quote: Originally posted by Grendal: Originally posted by Stratos: QUOTE]I might be wrong here, but I don't think that any mothers would breed/raise their sons (and sometimes daughters) to become suicide-bombers or terrorist. As a matter of fact, mothers are the most protective people I know of. To become a suicide-bomber or a terrorist is a choice made by the individual and not their parents. FOOTNOTE: you are a 31 year old woman on the WestBank. Your grandfather was killed 15 yrs ago in an Isreali incursion. 3 of your 4 brothers were also killed in conflict. Your father is in a wheelchair and needs a bag tied to his leg because he has no intestines left after being caught in his own organizations suicide plot against "the enemy". Your husband mysteriously dissappeared seven months ago. Your best friend of 17 years was killed in the cross fire of a skirmish two weeks ago while buying toilet paper. Your 10 year old son is outside right now being taught by your brother in law how to use a 31 year old AK-47. Your baby is warm in your arms suckling and you are thinking "how am I going to get back at those bastards for killing my family". And after all these tragedies, would the mother really want to send another one of her sons to the grave?

The mother is not sending her son to the grave but rather sending her son to a higher purpose. Some cultures believe that dying in the name of their God is the ultimate honour.

[Stratos]

Originally posted by Animal: quote: Originally posted by Stratos: quote: Originally posted by Grendal: Originally posted by Stratos: QUOTE]I might be wrong here, but I don't think that any mothers would breed/raise their sons (and sometimes daughters) to become suicide-bombers or terrorist. As a matter of fact, mothers are the most protective people I know of. To become a suicide-bomber or a terrorist is a choice made by the individual and not their parents. FOOTNOTE: you are a 31 year old woman on the WestBank. Your grandfather was killed 15 yrs ago in an Isreali incursion. 3 of your 4 brothers were also killed in conflict. Your father is in a wheelchair and needs a bag tied to his leg because he has no intestines left after being caught in his own organizations suicide plot against "the enemy". Your husband mysteriously dissappeared seven months ago. Your best friend of 17 years was killed in the cross fire of a skirmish two weeks ago while buying toilet paper. Your 10 year old son is outside right now being taught by your brother in law how to use a 31 year old AK-47. Your baby is warm in your arms suckling and you are thinking "how am I going to get back at those bastards for killing my family". And after all these tragedies, would the mother really want to send another one of her sons to the grave?

The mother is not sending her son to the grave but rather sending her son to a higher purpose. Some cultures believe that dying in the name of their God is the ultimate honour. [/QUOTE]The "cultures" that capitalizes on this are the fundamentalists sects and organizations that hardly represent the broad public. And basically all cultures teaches this in one way or another, if you don't die for God then it's your country or your freedom you sacrifice yourself for. In times of war or other conflicts there easily rises a hero's cult or martyr's cult, these young men and women become heroes for the younger generation to admire and the ruling and/or war-mongering people to use to their advantage.

[ 06-27-2003, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Stratos ]