What is a fascist?

[Yorick]

In another thread, yet another "Hitler" slur was made. "Heil Yorick" was the latest.

So I thought in light of people continually ignoring the requests from Europeans to NOT bandy around such destructive terms with callous disregard for others, I thought I'd post the definition a wise and noble sagelike person I know gave me.

Here it is:

From Matthew Lyon's book "Right Wing Populism in America (1995)": "Fascism is a form of extreme right-wing ideology that celebrates the nation or the race as an organic community transcending all other loyalties. It emphasizes a myth of national or racial rebirth after a period of decline or destruction. To this end, fascism calls for a "spiritual revolution" against signs of moral decay such as individualism and materialism, and seeks to purge "alien" forces and groups that threaten the organic community. Fascism tends to celebrate masculinity, youth, mystical unity, and the regenerative power of violence. Often, but not always, it promotes racial superiority doctrines, ethnic persecution, imperialist expansion, and genocide. At the same time, fascists may embrace a form of internationalism based on either racial or ideological solidarity across national boundaries. Usually fascism espouses open male supremacy, though sometimes it may also promote female solidarity and new opportunities for women of the privileged nation or race. - Fascism's approach to politics is both populist--in that it seeks to activate "the people" as a whole against perceived oppressors or enemies--and elitist--in that it treats the people's will as embodied in a select group, or often one supreme leader, from whom authority proceeds downward. Fascism seeks to organize a cadre-led mass movement in a drive to seize state power. It seeks to forcibly subordinate all spheres of society to its ideological vision of organic community, usually through a totalitarian state. Both as a movement and a regime, fascism uses mass organizations as a system of integration and control, and uses organized violence to suppress opposition, although the scale of violence varies widely. - Fascism is hostile to Marxism, liberalism, and conservatism, yet it borrows concepts and practices from all three. Fascism rejects the principles of class struggle and workers' internationalism as threats to national or racial unity, yet it often exploits real grievances against capitalists and landowners through ethnic scapegoating or radical-sounding conspiracy theories. Fascism rejects the liberal doctrines of individual autonomy and rights, political pluralism, and representative government, yet it advocates broad popular participation in politics and may use parliamentary channels in its drive to power. Its vision of a "new order" clashes with the conservative attachment to tradition-based institutions and hierarchies, yet fascism often romanticizes the past as inspiration for national rebirth. - Fascism has a complex relationship with established elites and the non-fascist right. It is never a mere puppet of the ruling class, but an autonomous movement with its own social base. In practice, fascism defends capitalism against instability and the left, but also pursues an agenda that sometimes clashes with capitalist interests in significant ways. There has been much cooperation, competition, and interaction between fascism and other sections of the right, producing various hybrid movements and regimes."

It has been repeatedly requested that people refrain from using the term incorrectly and in an insulting manner when you disagree with a point of view.

Singapore for example bans many things certain Americans hold as representative of freedom itself. Singapore is a representative democracy and no-where near a fascist state.

As evident from the above discourse, one is not a fascist if one supports
1.Gun control
2.Public smoking prohibition
3.No death penalty
4.Constitutional revisions

For example.

So let's keep the feelings of others in mind and keep the labelling off the international forum.

[ 05-27-2003, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Dreamer128]

Originally posted by Yorick: As evident from the above discourse, one is not a fascist if one supports 1.Gun control 2.Public smoking prohibition 3.No death penalty 4.Constitutional revisions

Thanks for the description Yorick [img]smile.gif[/img] I hope it'll help, but if people want to insult you they will probably apply some other term, eh Comrade?
On another note, it is my experience that it are usually the right wing people (against gun control, pro death penalty, etc) who complain about being compared to Fascists.

[Rokenn]

no, no, no, Yorik. A facist is what you call someone how you do not agree with, when you want to belittle and dismiss them It's also useful when you have run out of rational arguements.

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Dreamer128: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: As evident from the above discourse, one is not a fascist if one supports 1.Gun control 2.Public smoking prohibition 3.No death penalty 4.Constitutional revisions

Thanks for the description Yorick [img]smile.gif[/img] I hope it'll help, but if people want to insult you they will probably apply some other term, eh Comrade?
On another note, it is my experience that it are usually the right wing people (against gun control, pro death penalty, etc) who complain about being compared to Fascists. [/QUOTE]The US Right is famous for using it to dismiss and belittle liberal causes as well. Notably EcoFacists and FemNazis

[Attalus]

Actually, Yorick, I don't like your definition. Webster's says: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition. That one I agree with, without all of the slanted analysis.

[Timber Loftis]

Tell you what, you give me a slightly-insulting (but not in violation of TOS) pithy-sounding term to use when someone is so stubbornly unwavering on (1) an issue and also (2) forcing everyone else to see it their way and I'll quit using Fascist.

As a show of good will, I hereby shelve Nazi from my IWF vocabulary.

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Tell you what, you give me a slightly-insulting (but not in violation of TOS) pithy-sounding term to use when someone is so stubbornly unwavering on (1) an issue and also (2) forcing everyone else to see it their way and I'll quit using Fascist. As a show of good will, I hereby shelve Nazi from my IWF vocabulary.

bull-headed, stubborn, stonewalling, stick in the mud. how are those? [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ElricMorlockin]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Tell you what, you give me a slightly-insulting (but not in violation of TOS) pithy-sounding term to use when someone is so stubbornly unwavering on (1) an issue and also (2) forcing everyone else to see it their way and I'll quit using Fascist. As a show of good will, I hereby shelve Nazi from my IWF vocabulary.

I'll second that. Quit playing the martyr Yorick you're better than that. [img]graemlins/blueblink.gif[/img]

Here is the partial list you provide to garner sympathy. Why not finish the entire list out as to be completely honest. Oh and do paint them as you being "hounded" "crucified" "belittled" or whatnot, elsewise I will not know that they came from your keyboard. [img]graemlins/blueblink.gif[/img]

As evident from the above discourse, one is not a fascist if one supports
1.Gun control
2.Public smoking prohibition
3.No death penalty
4.Constitutional revisions

Being that we are *still* discussing number four, I'd say that your stance is hardly that of "minor,harmless, revisions". That is severely disengenious to assert so. Items one and two, and the way you put them, actually teem with what TL posted above. I havent seen a thread on the death penalty and your thoughts so I have no comment. Hows that?

[ 05-27-2003, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: ElricMorlockin ]

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Rokenn: bull-headed, stubborn, stonewalling, stick in the mud. how are those? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Pretty good. I was looking for something a bit more on the insulting side, though.

Hey, guys, while you're at it I'm looking for a word to describe those who enter a discussion for the purpose of stating their view and enforcing it rather than exploring it. It's sorta the same concept as talking "at" people rather than "with" people. Or, as the old question goes: "When someone else is talking, are you listening or waiting to speak?" Anyone got a good term for this behavior??

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by ElricMorlockin: I'll second that. Quit playing the martyr Yorick you're better than that. [img]graemlins/blueblink.gif[/img] [/QB]

I do not see any bid for martyerdom here. He is just pointing out what many of the Europian member have stated in the past, that the terms Nazi and Facist carries much greater weight and bagage then in the US.