Felpurr Bishops?

[Gimli]

Anyone have any experience with this race/class combination?

Am thinking I want my 2 bishops-to-possibly-be to have snakespeed and it looks like Felpurrs can get there the fastest. They might get powercast a level or two after say an Elf bishop which is the other race I am thinking about, but powercast seems to rise up very quickly compared to snakespeed.

Can't remember anyone trying this out, just want to see if anyone has done it with any success, tend to hear people make faerie and elf bishops the most, with some gnomes (heard of rawulfs rarely too).

[Gimli]

Also how about best race for a Priest? I am leaning heavily towards Rawulf now. Beyond Piety, what would you say the best stat is to raise up first and why?

[otter]

I like it. You can even ignore Pi until after you get max Sp and not miss out on that much recovery, the req'd 55 does well enough; if you get Snakespeed at L12, you can then get Powercast at 15 and start on Dx, finishing Pi at 24. Senses supposedly helps eith Psi, but i've been reading lately, that's only for learning, and it doesn't really do anything for the magic itself.
I like elves better, though, because i can put 10 points in In right away, allowing Powercast to start in just 10 levels, counting the Riddle Fountain; then Sp is done at L15 and Pi at L25. I usually use the other 10 from the start for Vi, 'cuz 35 is just too low.
I've also used Hobbits for Bishops, they get Vi and Sp, & more St than Elves.
My favorite use for Fellpur is a Bard. Because of the Se and In not really increasing musical effectiveness, Sp & Dx are done at L10 & 13, and St at 25, (i usually make them Fighters after L11)

[Dorkus]

I would NOT ignore piety. I've found post-75 skill improvement TORTUOUSLY slow when controlling attributes are not reasonably high (80+ seems ideal). Piety also provides more skill points, and the Iron Will skill is very nice.

IMO, snake speed is tremendously overrated. It is definitely NOT a reason to max speed. All it does is give you a tiny boost to initiative (at 100 snake speed, your iniative goes up by 10), but putting points in senses gives you a much better boost to initiative, AND it gives you a number of other bonuses to boot.

[el_kalkylus]

Faerie bishops get snakespeed faster, and powercast too, unless you want to invest points in vitality because of the low hp and carrying capacity.

Originally posted by Dorkus: I would NOT ignore piety. I've found post-75 skill improvement TORTUOUSLY slow when controlling attributes are not reasonably high (80+ seems ideal). Piety also provides more skill points, and the Iron Will skill is very nice. IMO, snake speed is tremendously overrated. It is definitely NOT a reason to max speed. All it does is give you a tiny boost to initiative (at 100 snake speed, your iniative goes up by 10), but putting points in senses gives you a much better boost to initiative, AND it gives you a number of other bonuses to boot.

Yes, senses also boost initiative. I think 100 speed gives 20 initiative, 100 senses gives 20 initiative and 100 snakespeed gives 10 initiative. If you have above 41 initiative or something like that, you will be able to cast first in almost every fight. In my last party, I pumped 3 points into speed on my elf alchemist at every levelup, and when he got snakespeed at level 14, I pumped that every levelup. By the end of the game, he had 23 snakespeed (+20 from snakespeed boots). And after speed, I put points into senses. So in the end he had 47 initiative with 1 ankh of speed (+10 speed), 1 pair of snakespeed boots (+10 speed, +20 snakespeed) and one cloak of perception (+20 senses). This means he had 120 speed, 93 senses and 43 snakespeed when he was level 20 (i.e 46.9 initiative = 47 initiative). You decide whether you think snakespeed is good. I only got 2 extra initiative from snakespeed which isn't that good. Still, I want to reach 100 speed anyway. Normally spell casters doesn't have much use of senses, unless you want high mythology skill or have psionic spell book.

Since my alchemist didn't put points in piety, but stayed at 55 piety and 100 intelligence, he had his magic skills around 70-80. My bishops maxed intelligence and piety, so they had their magic skills around 80-97. (Magic skills = fire, earth, water... ) Even though the alchemist cast alot of potions/powders/bullets and didn't use magic as much as the bishops, his magic skills still took longer to improve. So controlling attributes are important if you want really high skills.

[ 06-17-2002, 07:09 AM: Message edited by: el_kalkylus ]

[el_kalkylus]

I have a theory about controlling attributes.

Let's say we have the controlling attributes A and B to the skill C. Then I believe that when C is more than (A+B)/2, the skill will raise incredibly slow. But if you have put x amount of points into C at levelup, then C will raise incredibly slow only when C is more than x+(A+B)/2. Generally, this seem correct so far when I play.

Look at the lizardman fighter for example. He has 30 intelligence and 30 senses which are controlling attributes for the skill close combat. Because I put 3 points into close combat every levelup, he will add about 45 points to 30. So when he reach 45+30=75, his skill will raise very slowly. Luckily, he has 25% bonus, so his skill will probably end around 95 in close combat.

Edit: I said 45 points because I thought that the lizardman fighter would reach 75 close combat at level 15, and 15*3=45. When I looked at my last game, my lizardman fighter had 97 close combat at level 21.

[ 06-17-2002, 06:47 AM: Message edited by: el_kalkylus ]

[el_kalkylus]

I was thinking about bards. The controlling attributes for music skill are dexterity and intelligence. One game, I had my bard with 60 intelligence and 60 dexterity + 20 intelligence with helmet. This means that (according to my theory above), the music skill shouldn't raise much above (60+80)/2 + x, where x is the amount of points you have invested in music skill at levelup. So let's say I have invested 20 points in music, that means the bard will have around 90 music skill in the end.

This proved right for my bard in one game. She ended with 90 music at level 19. In another game, I classchanged my bard at level 15 to a fighter, so her music skill ended up at 84, which seems about right. In another game, my bard had 80 int and 85 dex. At level 21 she had 96 music, which also seem right.

I wonder though, have anyone ever maxed a skill? I have never done it. I think it's only possible to do that when controlling attributes are close to 100.

[otter]

I have maxed the following skills, shown with corresponding "controlling" attribute points at the time of maxing for one example:
Locks & Traps, Dex 67, Int 55.
Stealth, Dex 65, Int 51.
Sword, Str 82, Dex 100.
Wand and Staff, Str 47, Dx 100.
Martial Arts, Dex 100, Spd 100.
Reflextion, Dex 100.
Powercast, Int 100.
Bow, Dex 100 Str 89.
(edit)
Alchemy, Dex 79, Int 86.
Wizardry, Int 72
Divinity, Piety 55
Psionics, Sen 60, Int 75.
Earth, Int 72.
Mental, Int 72.
I've also maxed Mythology, don't remember what the Att points were.

[ 06-18-2002, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: otter ]

[Wereboar]

I wonder though, have anyone ever maxed a skill? I have never done it. I think it's only possible to do that when controlling attributes are close to 100.

With my last party, my bishop maxed several spellcasting skills. Int and Pie at 100.
My gadgeteer maxed engeneering, and my bard maxed music. Both didn't have 100 intelligence. But i didn't switch classes, so they had lots of time.
My ranger also maxed his shooting and range combat.

At the moment, i play a fighter-bishop duo. I made one level of rogue, and maxed stealth. Around level 6, so no stats were maxed.
I also trained the bishop in locks&traps to 90. Improved fast once i was at 20+, but got slow above ~60.

My bishop now has 90+ in any spellcasting skill except psionic. He has 100 int and pie, and alchemy raises fast with potion merging. But i had to use psionic spells exclusively for a long time to get it from 75 (100 int, 50 senses) up to 81 (to learn these level 7 spells).

So, it is possible to max skills with low controlling stats. But it takes a long time.

[el_kalkylus]

Thanks for the details. This is interesting. Hmm. my solo faerie ninja DID max critical strike (125 with bonus), but no other skill, some were at 99.

It seems like my theory is only good for my own games. Ah well, at least it's good for someone (me).