What causes you the most stress?

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

I asked HR most of the questions.

When I asked the first question, the answer was "nothing in the commission plan".

She is going to speak to my manager again. I doubt it will help. But I did tell her that I felt there was bias, or discrimination on the part of the customer, I felt.

I also told her that I had informed my manager early this month that they were prorating my number too high and it should be reduced.I still have that email and I printed it off. Given that they accusing me of inflating my numbers, that can only help.

I also mentioned about the girl that's now in the new position having "seemingly" done the same thing. If they can determine that she took a contact, whether she was leaving her position or not, will help a lot, I think. Because this may have caused her to commission, where otherwise, she may not have.
If they do find in fraudulent as well, they'll have a tough decision as to what to do, given that they just put her into a management roll.

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

Round.. ?

HR emailed this morning. She set up a meeting with the 2 of us and my department manager for 11am tomorrow. I asked her what would be discussed, so I could bring whatever I felt I needed, but she said I did not need anything.
I'm going to bring a few things anyway. Like the email telling my manager he prorated me too high.

I was wondering what I should do if I'm feeling "ganged up" on by the 2 of them?

I'm planning (or hoping) to put all the "nitty-gritty" aside and just explain that reprimanding me is too costly. And that I really wasn't trying to be "fraudulent".

Thoughts?

[Bungleau]

Danger Will Robinson... "You don't need anything" means that you're expected to be unarmed... they won't be.

Copies of the policy, procedure manuals, past reviews, documentation of the situation, your sales performance records, and such will be essential for you. Being familiar with them will be as well.

Don't think your department manager is coming unarmed. You may be amazed at how much documentation exists there. And realize that after this meeting (hell, after all you've gone through on this), there's going to be a big rift between you and your department manager. A rift that may never be healed, even when one of you leaves. And I suspect that one of you will, one way or another.

Remember... of the other two people in that room, none is on your side. HR is on the side of the company, and your department manager is on her own side. She also will likely feel like she needs to save face... both as a new department manager and as a manager who has made a decision. Sadly, few managers can admit they've made mistakes. Good leaders can.... I'll leave you with that thought.

Is there someone else (say, higher up on the sales food chain) that would be able to participate as *your* champion, or the company's champion, so to speak? Someone who would have the authority or position to tell the department manager that she is wrong?

HR people know next to nothing about sales. If you don't get a champion, you'll need to be prepared to educate him/her... what's more important? Farming the algorithm or hitting the number? Even if you're not farming it exactly, you're exceeding the number. Who's got the right to be upset with that? Careful with that, though... could be construed as an admission of guilt.

Depending on your style, be prepared to be blunt. When someone starts getting all fancy and hypothetical, try to cut back to the real issue. If someone's talking about rules being rules, and needing to be followed, ask if they want you to follow rules or hit quota. Because the rules are there to help those who *don't* know how. They're based on some kind of farming algorithm... you make X contacts, you get Y inquiries and Z sales. I know it's late in the game, but if you can calculate your own numbers... say that you make X contacts, get Y+5 inquiries, and Z+3 sales. Do they want the contacts or the sales?

BTW, good salespeople don't always make good sales managers. It's a different skill set... salespeople need to learn one (or a couple) of sales styles. Managers need to learn more than one, because other people will have different styles.

Side note: Suggested reading for you... Sales Dogs, by Blair Singer. One of the Rich Dad, Poor Dad Advisor series, it talks about the five different types of salesperson: Pit bulls (aggressive), Golden retrievers (faithful service), Poodles (upper class), Chihuahuas (know-it-alls), and Basset Hounds (personal rapport). A sales manager who tries to cast all salespeople in one mold is looking for lots of frustration.

I'd stay away from stating that reprimanding you is too costly. It isn't. Your salary, even with commissions and a nice trip to Cancun, is a drop in the bucket to Staples. It'd only be costly if every drop were that size... but if every one were, they'd have a lot more revenue to pay for it. That's the beauty of effective salespeople... they pay for themselves.

Good luck tomorrow.

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

Just to clarify,
My current manager is not new to the department. And there already is a big rift, at least on my part, 'cos I can't stand her. I know that's not a Christian thing to say, but I've never seen a manager work so hard to get her own people.

There is no one I can think of to "champion" me. One of our upper management people will be here tomorrow from Framingham. Depending on how it goes today, I'll try to arrange a meeting with her. She's a good egg, for the most part.

As for the sales to contacts thing:
It's actually a disadvantage "not" to speak to the person and just take the contact, because I really can't sell him anything that way. (I just thought of that; good point on my part )

She, and most of the managers have "0" selling skills. None have ever done what we do; scary, eh?

With "costly" I'm referring to what they would loose, if I only give 100%. Last year, it was a about $85k over 100%. Still, a drop in the bucket, but if I expand on that and say, "what if all 150 of us just made an extra $85k in sales a year: $12,7500,000. That's a relevant number. Plus the fact that only 11 of us even made 100%. And that 11 may even include team managers.

The one thing I will say for the manager though, is that I don't think it will be a blow to her ego, to reverse, or lessen the decision. I'm actually hoping they will change it to a "verbal" warning, which will allow her to save face. The verbal stays on my record for 6 months, then it's removed. It also does not take me out of the running for the trip this year.
..and frankly, they've made their point anyway (such as it is). For lack of a better term, I'm hoping for a Jedi mind trick. By having her change the severity, but have her think it was her idea. That way, everybody wins.

..is there a charisma spell, or potion handy?

Oooh, I'm sexy, like dplax and Wellard! (avatar)

[Bungleau]

Don't bring up the "costly" bit as you're defining it. That's akin to what... I think it was Cerek said earlier. By stating that you're going to do less work, you really are marking yourself. They'll be *more* inclined to keep an eye on you and triple-check everything, just waiting for you to screw up. It's like having a police officer trail behind you for 20 kilometers, waiting for that moment when you speed so he can give you a ticket.

Better to take the high road there... don't mention anything about doing less work.

I hate to say it this way, but based on what you've described here, I don't believe they hold your position with much respect. I suspect they consider it to be a trained monkey position - something even a trained monkey can do. If they didn't, they'd have somebody with a sales focus leading it.

Hmmmm... in one future, I'll bet that person could be you...

But don't let the fact that they haven't done what you do lead you to think they don't have sales skills. They probably do... just in a different direction. Sales is key to almost everything in life, from work to raising children to relationships.

As for not liking your manager, it's up to you to be professional enough to get past it. This too, shall pass.... she will stop being your manager soon enough, one way or another.

On the topic of not being able to sell additional things because you haven't talked on the phone, I vehemently disagree. You can't email a customer and say,

Got your request for the replacement paper. How are your toner levels? We've got a special going on that right now... including two of the three varieties you use. If you include two cases of each, it will get you...

You get the picture. Your relationship with the customer is the most important sales skill. Without it, all your sales techniques will fall to the wayside.

I don't know what you have available for sales training, or what you use. There are a couple of great resources that I recommend:

• Zig Ziglar
• Jeffrey Gitomer
• Tom Hopkins
• Brian Tracy (a Canuck, eh!)

You can find podcasts, books, tapes, newsletters, and more. Some are free, and some require an investment on your part. I've got a number of things, both free and not so. I particularly recommend Jeffrey Gitomer for you. His approach toward sales is very blunt and New Jersey - in your face. But it's also very sensible in my book.

Zig Ziglar is very Christian, and it shows in many of his works. I think you'll enjoy that in many ways. You can learn a lot of things from him, both in the world of sales and the world of life.

Good luck today. Think like a chess player... always several moves ahead, and remember that everything being done has a purpose.

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

Thanks again,
I think most of the stuff I put down, won't come up. I just hope I can make them see that this is something I do not need to do, in order to commission, or get my numbers.

I'm hoping to keep everything in a positive light.

Edit: BTW, the manager her is the department manager, not my team manager.
She just sent an email saying that our team manager is out sick today and the team meeting we were supposed to have, will be rescheduled for Thursday. The meeting with HR and her are supposed to be before the meet one. Kinda strange, but probably unrelated.

I wonder if I should ask to have this meeting rescheduled for Thursday as well. They pay my mileage for going in, it will save them some money.

Edit 2: HR just emailed to say they re-scheduled it for Thursday as well.

[dplax]

Originally Posted by Variol (Farseer) Elmwood Oooh, I'm sexy, like dplax and Wellard!

I'm not sure whether you're complimenting yourself or not there...

[Cerek]

Originally Posted by Variol (Farseer) Elmwood Thanks again, I think most of the stuff I put down, won't come up. I just hope I can make them see that this is something I do not need to do, in order to commission, or get my numbers. I'm hoping to keep everything in a positive light. Edit: BTW, the manager her is the department manager, not my team manager. She just sent an email saying that our team manager is out sick today and the team meeting we were supposed to have, will be rescheduled for Thursday. The meeting with HR and her are supposed to be before the meet one. Kinda strange, but probably unrelated. I wonder if I should ask to have this meeting rescheduled for Thursday as well. They pay my mileage for going in, it will save them some money. Edit 2: HR just emailed to say they re-scheduled it for Thursday as well.

Re-scheduling definitely works in your favor. If there is any way possible, I think your team manager should be included in the meeting as well. Not only is it relevant to his team's performance, but he can also verify your productivity and value to the team over the last several years. It's probably the closest you're going to get to a "champion" for your cause. At the very least, your team manager should be more inclined to help lessen the severity of the reprimand for you than anyone else in the company.

I agree completely with Bung - DO NOT GO TO THE MEETING UNARMED!!! Take absolutely EVERYTHING you think might POSSIBLY be relevant. Look at it this way, if you were in a gang and a rival gang member challenged you, but told you to show up by yourself and without weapons cause you and him were just gonna fight it out with fists, would you trust him? BZZZZZZZZT! I don't think so. Chances are, he would show up with his whole gang and they would be armed to the teeth. It isn't the best analogy, but it IS very appropriate.

You can bet your butt your department manager will have everything she feels she needs to prove her point. And the HR rep is clueless (like you said), so you need to have stacks of documentation showing your productivity and compliance with company policy. You also need the manual and copies of ALL communications related to this reprimand. Document dates and times of calls, who you spoke with, etc. You're still doing a sales pitch, only this time the "customer" is the HR rep. If you can provide documented evidence to counter the dept manager's claims, your sales pitch will be the stronger of the two. Whoever has the most impressive documentation will make the biggest impression on him/her.

This meeting is going to be your chance for you to stand up for yourself. My suggestion is that you be very straightforward about your productivity and performance. You may even go so far as to suggest there appears to be some bias towards you individually. You might point out the peer who was recently promoted to manager had much the same activity in her style - but do that only as a last resort and be very cautious in your approach.

The idea is to be assertive, but not aggressive. Control your emotions and let your track record do most of the talking for you. When I got fired at the hospital, the CEO called me in his office and had another Assistant Administrator there as a witness. There was a 2nd Asst Admin on duty that day (the DON I mentioned earlier that had cost the facility over 25k through negligence) but she did NOT attend the meeting. I'm certain it's because she knew it was BS and didn't want to be a party to it. Anyway, when the CEO accused me of wrongdoing and said I was being terminated, I simply stood up and turned in my keys. I knew there was no point in arguing. However, looking back, I realized that made me look "guilty" in the eyes of the Assistant. After all, if the charges WEREN'T true, why didn't I even bother trying to deny them? I had already been through that with the CEO a couple of days before, but I realize now I should have stood up and told the CEO to his face that this was BS and that we both knew it. I should have said "This has nothing to do with the printer cartridge. Your firing me because I've had two major surgeries and jacked up the expense to our insurance carrier" The CEO was a gruff, bully type, but I feel now if I had stood my ground and challenged his BS, he might have backed down. He certainly wouldn't have expected that reaction and - at that point - I literally had nothing to lose since I was being fired anyway.

My personal recommendation would be to state that you feel the reprimand is unwarranted and you feel like you've been individually targeted. When the dept manager points out that "the rules are very clear", you can counter with the fact that you understand and respect the rules, but every successful sales rep and manager realizes that sometimes you have to work around the rules in certain situations. You might point out that this particular infraction is a common practice among the top-producing sales reps for Staples and other firms as well. It's like speeding...you understand and respect the speed limit, but there are times when you have to exceed it to get the job done.

Just be very careful in this approach. You never want to come out and say "Well I know I was breaking the rule, but everybody else does it too". The idea is to show that you tried to work within the rule, but this situation required a judgement call on your part. That allows you to apologize for using poor judgement and to acknowledge that you will be more conscious of such actions in the future. That also gives your dept manager an "out" to reduce the reprimand to a verbal warning and still say she was "right".

You don't want it to be a case of I'm right and she's wrong (even though it may well be). It's better to say "Perhaps I could have done this better". That way, you're conceding to the dept manager's authority without really admitting you ignored or deliberately broke the rule.

[Bungleau]

One other important item that Cerek's post just reminded me of...

IIRC, you said that this all started from a system-generated email that included the words "thanks for talking with me today" or something to that effect.

Is that true?

If so, do you have the ability to edit the email before it goes out? If so, then you can admit to an oversight on your part, and promise it won't happen again. If not, then you can ask how the system tools can accomodate your situation, where you were responding to an email and not a voice call.

I agree with Cerek... the "everyone else is doing it" defense is a weak one. Doesn't work as a kid (everyone else is going) because of the easy retort - If everyone else were jumping off a bridge, would you?

The "sometimes you have to stretch the rules" defense is better, but is also an admission of guilt. Save this for the close of this sale... if you open with it, you're setting the stage that you're wrong.

Just had a thought... if you can, role-play through this with someone who can pretend to be your boss and/or the HR person. Have them be mean and nasty... if you've run through that while you can think about it, you won't be caught flustered when it happens for real.

The "Perhaps I could have done this better" approach is a good one... kudos to Cerek for it. It acknowledges that things didn't happen quite the right way and opens the door for methods to clean it up without anyone - you, your boss, or HR - having to lose face in the process.

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

Thanks to you also Cerek,
The last two paragraphs are my goal. I don't want to go down some dirty road. I do plan to be assertive.

If the manager from Framingham is still there, I would have her as my champion. We actually hug each other when we see each other.

My team manager has only been so for a month now, so I don't think that will work. My former manager is retiring in the Summer, so she won't get involved.