06-17-2002, 07:16 PM | #21 | ||
Very Mad Bird
Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 52
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From encarta online: http://encarta.msn.com/find/Concise....2&ti=761553439
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06-17-2002, 07:19 PM | #22 |
John Locke
Join Date: February 7, 2002
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Age: 35
Posts: 8,985
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Wow, Yorick. That's fascinating!
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06-17-2002, 08:41 PM | #23 |
Jack Burton
Join Date: March 21, 2001
Location: Philippines, but now Harbor City Sydney
Age: 41
Posts: 5,556
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just wanna pop in and say "Hi Yorick" !! [img]smile.gif[/img] going to discussions & debate again?" lol
nice facts though: i didnt know santa was a pagan [img]smile.gif[/img]
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06-17-2002, 08:55 PM | #24 | |
Very Mad Bird
Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
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06-17-2002, 09:19 PM | #25 |
Manshoon
Join Date: March 27, 2002
Location: Boulder, CO
Age: 45
Posts: 199
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I think that the fact that we keep giving gifts in the memory of Saint Nick is testament to at least some ephemeral existance. If he doesn't exist in person, and I don't believe that he does, he exists in our minds to the point where we practice a bit of charity at least once a year.
I personally don't give gifts on Christmas anymore. I prefer to give them on the sixth of december (saint nicks day) or the sixth of January (three kings day). Seems better to me that way. Plus I can spend Christmas with my family. [img]smile.gif[/img] Here's some funny stuff about the physical impossibility of Santa. http://home.uchicago.edu/~rascalzo/a...a-physics.html And here's a webpage about the origin of Santa. I'm leaning towards the santa being pagan thing. I couldn't find anything online but I do remember reading some books and fairy tales that describe santa like people running around BCE. http://www.religioustolerance.org/santa1.htm DeSoya
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06-17-2002, 09:52 PM | #26 |
John Locke
Join Date: February 7, 2002
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Age: 35
Posts: 8,985
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But maybe Santa has a special shield so he doesn't burn up with the super fast reindeer powering!
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06-17-2002, 10:45 PM | #27 |
Ninja Storm Shadow
Join Date: March 27, 2001
Location: Northport,Alabama, USA
Age: 62
Posts: 3,577
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Santa exists I saw him, or his foot at least, when I was but a wee lad. We were visiting an aunt and uncle for christmas, they didn't have a chimney so Santa used the front door. I heard him woke up and came running into the living room just as he was leaving out the front door.
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Crustiest of the OLD COOTS "Donating mirrors for years to help the Liberal/Socialist find their collective rear-ends, because both hands doesn't seem to be working. Veitnam 61-65:KIA 1864 66:KIA 5008 67:KIA 9378 68:KIA 14594 69:KIA 9414 70:KIA 4221 71:KIA 1380 72:KIA 300 Afghanistan2001-2008 KIA 585 2009-2012 KIA 1465 and counting Davros 1 Much abliged Massachusetts |
06-18-2002, 02:30 AM | #28 |
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Yorrick,
Your response is well thought out and I do respect your beliefs. I still believe I have every right to question them! Especially as you believe that I am missing out on something very special. I do think that you need to look at it from a non-christian’s point of view though. It’s easy for you to say “What I'm saying is that you cannot with any certainty say anything DOES NOT EXIST”, but is it really practical to put that statement into use. I cannot say with any certainty that the moon is not made of cheese! I haven’t been to the moon, and even if textbooks tell me that it is not made of cheese, technically I still don’t actually know. But is it then reasonable for me to, not only admit that the moon may very well be made of cheese, but to actually believe that it is. So, based on your statement, I don’t 100% know that there isn’t a God. But that doesn’t in any shape or form, give many any reason what-so-ever, to believe that there is one. Furthermore, I could reverse the idea on you and say that there is no possible way that you can know that God exists. You may believe that he exists. You may have had experiences that persuade you towards thinking that there is a God, but can you really tell me that you KNOW! I don’t think so. You told me that you KNOW you have a soul as well. I don’t think you can possibly say that with absolute knowledge. Anyway, I’m sure I understand what you are getting at. You are suggesting that even if I don’t believe in God, that I should accept that you believe God is real. I’m sorry if it seems that I (amongst others) don’t accept your belief. It’s just that you believe in God because you have had many experiences in your life that you regard as evidential. I obviously have either had none of these experiences, or did not regard them to be evidential in any way. You say that you don’t have time or space to tell me about your experiences, but I for one would like to know what they are! What experiences can possibly be enough for someone to say with such certainty that God exists, and that Christianity is for real. Finally, I really get frustrated at statements such as “I have nothing to lose”. The amount of people I’ve heard say “Oh well, maybe I’m wrong! But isn’t it worth the chance that I’m wrong, just in case I am right!” I’m sorry, but belief just doesn’t work that way. If that was the case, then sign me up! I’m ready to commit! If some people can make themselves believe something “just in case” it turns out to be correct, I certainly am not one of them. It’s a pretty clear cut line. You either do, or you don’t. None of this what have you got to lose stuff. Avi. |
06-18-2002, 03:08 AM | #29 | |
Very Mad Bird
Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
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Quote:
I have analysed my experience of life and come to the conclusion there is a God who loves me (and you) , who desires relationship with us and, just as he gave life, offers eternal life with him to any who want it. You have different experience and consequently different analysis. It is to be expected that we humans reach differing conclusions. The difference is I am not trying to tell you, you are deluded, experiencing chemotropic hallucination, insane or wanting to believe your worldview, thus perpetuating it. If you are perceiving me to be saying you are missing out on something, well that may be the case. By definition I have an additional set of experiences (The normal human one, plus life with God in it) There's no need to feel offended by that. I am not scorning or condemning you, nor seeking to change your mind. I am asking for tolerance. That is all. The acceptance that what I and my bretheren believe is of equal validation to any other athiestic worldview. Concerning the substance of the moon, that is not really the same analogy. With the question "what is the moon made of", all is speculation until the substance is tested. Then the public relys on the testimony of those who experienced the collection of the data, to tell us what the moon is made of. Clearly, the one who experiences the said substance collection is in a better position to determine what the moon is made of that one who has not experienced it. In this thread what we are dealing with, is the actual existence, or nonexistence of a creator awareness. Of the person Jesus Christ. A significant proportion of humanity claim to be in regular communication with this persona. An alternate propartion of humanity are not in regular communication with him and thus claim he does not exist. Who is being the more foolish? Who is making statements outside their experience? What I am saying is, a person cannot speak outside their experience when seeking to contradict another. You say that the moon is made of cheese? Niel Amstrong says otherwise, and I accept his testimony to yours. You say you have never experienced God, and cannot thus believe? Fine. No problem. You make the universal statement that God does not exist and we are all deluded. Now we have a problem. I say, I know God. I know I have a soul. I make a living communicating with the "language of the soul", music. I know God. This is not an exclusive experience. If one searches with an open mind, one finds him. It's not hard to see his hand everywhere once the minds eyes are open. [ 06-18-2002, 03:13 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ] |
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06-18-2002, 04:14 AM | #30 |
Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess
Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Sweden
Age: 50
Posts: 3,450
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Oki, first of all, this be a non serious but serious post. Yorrick (sorrrry but you really shouldn´t have made that post mate ) has known me long enough to see this one comming!
There will be no idea in believing in him after this X-mus since I will catch him and eat that dude this year!! Afterall, the search for truth is always a one person buisness in the end. You decide what is your truth, but also know that the more you think you know, the more you will know that there is so much still to learn, that you will probably never know it all.
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