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Old 11-19-2004, 11:45 AM   #21
Yorick
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Quote:
Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
Yorick, I've been lamenting that for ages. You're not going to like my answer -- the richo party used religion and a little "shucks, y'all" talk to get that hoodwink to happen. They adopted christianity and rural-ness as their own -- TH3Y PWN3D 7T!!
I don't buy the religion thing. You've got people like Reverend Jesse Jackson in the Democrats, and pro-Abortionists like Giuliani in the Republicans.

But then maybe you're correct.

However, I don't see either party as representing Christian beliefs. On one side you've got pro-war, pro-death penalty, and lack of care for the have-not's - all anathaemas to the Christian faith and Jesus' teaching. On the other side, you've got increased abortion, and less conviction about what marriage is.

I wrote this article on my website about "the religious right": http://www.hughwilson.org/images/Left_wing_Jesus.doc

In any case, Black Christians don't necessarily vote Republican.

Further to the bewilderment at the perception that the Democrats are eleitist, let's look at where the strongholds are. Cities. Urban areas right. These urban areas are perceived as... rich? Have Americans heard of the ghetto? Have they heard of the poorer minority groups in these cities? The majority of New Yorkers struggle to get by. Yes it has more billionaires than any other city in the world, but it also seems to have more beggars.

Another hoodwink.
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Old 11-19-2004, 11:52 AM   #22
Cerek
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
quote:
Originally posted by Cerek:
Michael Moore and the rest of his elitist Blue Buddies just don't get it.
Cerek,

Bush and Cheney are far richer than Mike Moore. Bush and Cheney are "eleitist" career politicians. Moore is a filmaker. You have it the wrong way round for some reason.[/QUOTE]EVERY major politician is a multi-millionaire, Yorick. So is Michael Moore. But I am referring to Michael Moore's elitist attitude - that HE and HIS counterparts are much more intelligent, sophisticated, street-savvy and knowledgeable over all than the poor, ignorant hicks of Red America.

That is based on the numerous comments and editorials that have confirmed this "elitist attitude" - including the locked thread here copied from the NY Times. These labels and comments are taken from direct quotes of NY citizens interviewed for that article. Some of them even admitted their attitude might sound elitist, but they didn't care. Which means they really DO think they are "better and smarter" than Red America.

That is an excessively condescending and insulting view and - in case you can't tell - it pretty well pisses me off every time I hear. The first week or so was to be expected, but it just keeps going on and on. And there is no reason to think that this whiney-ass moaning is gonna stop any time within the next 4 years.

As I posted before, the liberals just can't believe that "Red America" didn't defer to their obviously superior wisdom and major dose of reality shock seems to have struck them to the very core - so much so that they are left with no recourse but to openly and continually insult the intellect and reasoning capabilities of the those that voted to put Bush into office despite their vigorous protestations.

Like I said before - THEY JUST DON'T GET IT!

And now you even have the audacity to suggest that I'm too naive' to realize that Bush and Cheney are multi-millionaires. If you can't understand how insulting that implication is, then I don't know how to explain it to you.


[ 11-19-2004, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: Cerek ]
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Old 11-19-2004, 11:56 AM   #23
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Although I do believe that the average American is incredibly uninformed, no matter whether they reside in a Red or Blue state, I don't think anyone was "hoodwinked" in this election. One side believes that Bush et al told lies? Newsflash--both sides lie. It all comes down to a matter of "whose lies do I believe less?" that determines one's vote.

Neither the neo-cons nor the liberals have this country's best interest at heart. Better for all of them to be forbidden from entering politics so that real progress may be made.
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Old 11-19-2004, 12:09 PM   #24
Yorick
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cerek:
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
quote:
Originally posted by Cerek:
Michael Moore and the rest of his elitist Blue Buddies just don't get it.
Cerek,

Bush and Cheney are far richer than Mike Moore. Bush and Cheney are "eleitist" career politicians. Moore is a filmaker. You have it the wrong way round for some reason.[/QUOTE]EVERY major politician is a multi-millionaire, Yorick. I am referring to Michael Moore's elitist attitude - that HE and HIS counterparts are much more intelligent, sophisticated, street-savvy and knowledgeable over all than the poor, ignorant hicks of Red America.

That is based on the numerous comments and editorials that have confirmed this "elitist attitude" - including the locked thread here copied from the NY Times. These labels and comments are taken from direct quotes of NY citizens interviewed for that article. Some of them even admitted their attitude might sound elitist, but they didn't care. Which means they really DO think they are "better and smarter" than Red America.

That is an excessively condescending and insulting view and - in case you can't tell - it pretty well pisses me off every time I hear. The first week or so was to be expected, but it just keeps going on and on. And there is no reason to think that this whiney-ass moaning is gonna stop any time within the next 4 years.

As I posted before, the liberals just can't believe that "Red America" didn't defer to their obviously superior wisdom and major dose of reality shock seems to have struck them to the very core - so much so that they are left with no recourse but to openly and continually insult the intellect and reasoning capabilities of the those that voted to put Bush into office despite their vigorous protestations.

Like I said before - THEY JUST DON'T GET IT!
[/QUOTE]Cerek, there are over 8 million night time residents of New York. Manhattan doesn't even have half of that. Brooklyn has 4 million. The largest borough, and is far from being filled with "eleitist" Manhattanites. The overwhelming majority are working class. Jersey City, Queens, Bronx, Staten. All this adds up to more people than exist in the Upper West, Upper East or Greenwhich Village.

As for Cheney and Bush... where did they go to college? Bush went to YALE. On daddy's money. http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...irm.action.tm/
Cheney has a masters in Arts from University of Wyoming. http://www.whitehouse.gov/vicepresident/vpbio.html

Where did Moore go to college?

Who had the best education money could buy? How does the son of a CIA chief turned President somehow give the impression that he's "Mr.Everyman".

It's a hoodwink Cerek. You have been hoodwinked. It's an aristocracy when the leadership gets passed from father to son, and a brother is a governor.

[ 11-19-2004, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]
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Old 11-19-2004, 12:13 PM   #25
Yorick
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cerek:
EVERY major politician is a multi-millionaire, Yorick.
Cerek, Cerek, Cerek. That may be in America, but not so the world. That is precisely what I am saying is wrong with America. There are no "everymen" but somehow, the poor are voting for the rich guys that make out like they're like them, instead of voting for the people that are looking out for their best interests.
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Old 11-19-2004, 12:18 PM   #26
Timber Loftis
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Quote:
Further to the bewilderment at the perception that the Democrats are eleitist, let's look at where the strongholds are. Cities. Urban areas right. These urban areas are perceived as... rich? Have Americans heard of the ghetto? Have they heard of the poorer minority groups in these cities? The majority of New Yorkers struggle to get by. Yes it has more billionaires than any other city in the world, but it also seems to have more beggars.
Not really, Yorick. They're may be more ghettos in urban areas -- obviously -- but they also get more government giveaways too. I lived with many baby mamma dramas in Chicago in a very nice highrise overlooking the park and the lake. I paid $1600/mo. in rent while they got up to a $1400/mo. subsidy from the city. HUD housing and CHA housing programs rock the block in chicago.

Did those neighbors of mine vote democrat -- YOU BET! As you say, they are not "blue blood" elitists. However, they are voting for the "blue blood" elitists that they know traditionally give them more handouts. Both parties are aristocracy -- well, more accurately, burgeiose (ack -- no time to refresh my memory on spelling that word) -- and both parties have a contingent of the prolitariat they have duped or bribed into voting for them. Which is the way it's always been.
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Old 11-19-2004, 01:25 PM   #27
Cerek
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
Cerek, there are over 8 million night time residents of New York. Manhattan doesn't even have half of that. Brooklyn has 4 million. The largest borough, and is far from being filled with "eleitist" Manhattanites. The overwhelming majority are working class. Jersey City, Queens, Bronx, Staten. All this adds up to more people than exist in the Upper West, Upper East or Greenwhich Village.

As for Cheney and Bush... where did they go to college? Bush went to YALE. On daddy's money. http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...irm.action.tm/
Cheney has a masters in Arts from University of Wyoming. http://www.whitehouse.gov/vicepresident/vpbio.html

Where did Moore go to college?

Who had the best education money could buy? How does the son of a CIA chief turned President somehow give the impression that he's "Mr.Everyman".

It's a hoodwink Cerek. You have been hoodwinked. It's an aristocracy when the leadership gets passed from father to son, and a brother is a governor.
I will try once again to explain that I am talking about ATTITUDE when I use the term "elitist", NOT WEALTH!!! And the article from the NY Times interviewed everyday working New Yorkers...and every one quoted said FLAT OUT that THEY were smarter, wiser, more "street savvy" and "globally aware" than Red America. In other words, THEY WERE BETTER THAN RED AMERICA. That is an "elitist attitude" and it doesn't have Happy Jack **** to do with how much money any of them make or have. It is their attitude that I am talking about.

And the real irony is that you are perpetuating that very same attitude and don't even realize it. You have implied that I didn't realize Bush and Cheney were multi-millionaires and have told me point blank that I was "hoodwinked" twice now. In other words, I wasn't "smart enough" to see through George Bush's act.

Well guess what, Yorick, I DID see through George Bush and his act. The only difference is that I also saw through Kerry and HIS act too (BTW, Kerry graduated from Yale just like George Bush and even belonged to the same "elite" club as Georgie Boy - but of course, you knew that already). And at the end of the day, I felt more comfortable that George Bush represented MY interests and MY VALUES better than John Kerry did.

And - amazing as it may sound - I actually managed to figure that out all by my little old self. If you were around BEFORE the election, then you surely saw some of my posts where I said I was very undecided as to who I was going to support, because I had pros and cons regarding both candidates. But when everything was said and done, I decided that Bush represented what I wanted in a President BETTER than Kerry did. The fact that you disagree with that choice is fine....but the fact that your disagreement makes you think I was "hoodwinked" is nothing short of arrogant, because it means you think that I just wasn't as "smart" or "savvy" as you were about George Bush - and that is the type of "elitist attitude" that I was talking about with Moore and his Blue America buddies.
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Old 11-19-2004, 01:34 PM   #28
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Now, onto other issues. Like how Yorick is a fine example of how Kerry hoodwinked folks. Only difference is, he hoodwinked LESS of them.

And, let's be clear -- Kerry was a crappy candidate. Horribe voting record, horrible absenteeism, never did propose or sponsor a bill worth mentioning save for the one normalizing trade and relations with Vietnam (which was heavily supported by McCain, despite all the "traitor" and "sell-out" accusations levied at Kerry by the Repugs).

The only thing Kerry had going for him -- and it was a big plus, I must admit -- was that he was not Bush. The theory was that no matter what he did in office, even if it was just sit there for four years, it couldn't be as bad as what Bush has done or will do. I agreed with that sentiment, so I begrudgingly supported Kerry vis-a-vis Bush, even though Kerry had little merit of his own.

Of course, Badnarik was the best choice -- but only an elite few of us knew that. And we were smarter than all y'all's, so [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]
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Old 11-19-2004, 02:19 PM   #29
Illumina Drathiran'ar
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
quote:
Originally posted by John D Harris:
quote:
Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
Or, maybe *this* sentence really gets to the very heart of it. You keep talking as if we don't admit our arrogance -- WE DO.
So are you saying you(liberals) are Wine sipping pinky point'n Metropolitain Pinheads vs Beer swill'n belch'n stager'n red necks? [/QUOTE]See I don't get that at all. That's the worst hoodwink put on the American people. That somehow, to be all for social policies like health care for the poor you somehow must be rich. It's wierd. Somehow America has gotten to the point where the poor vote rich. Believing the party that represents their interest more, to be eleitist richos. How the hell did that hoodwink happen? [/QUOTE]Nation's Poor Win Election for Nation's Rich.
http://www.theonion.com/election2004/news_4045.php
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Old 11-19-2004, 02:45 PM   #30
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You don't have to be stupid to be hoodwinked, nor smart to do the hoodwink'in.
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