ok ..what the hell - Page 3

NobleNick · 10-13-2003, 10:25 AM

Twid,

I'm running XP also. Hmmmm... THREE computers in the house and you still can't find something that will run IWD/HoW? Heh, heh, heh: I don't know whether to feel sorry for you or not...

Lymond,

I'll take your experience under advisement and be fully rested before entering the main door. I have (I believe) one last big battle in the crypt; and have started it twice, but not finished. The problem is that we have several young children that I have agreed with my wife, should not be watching "fighting games." So, two times now, I have almost had these bad boys licked when in pops my son, fresh out of bed or just back from school, and the game goes off with no save. (I don't mind much: sort of adds to the challenge!)

I don't know whether or not to recommend StarCraft and SC Brood Wars to you; so I'll just share my experience.

There is a bit of resource management, which I don't particularly like; but despite this, I found SC very enjoyable. The single player campaigns were challenging without being frustrating. The storyline is very good, holds more than a few surprises, and the campaigns are intricately woven into it. Often a mission will start with a goal and then the requirements of the mission will change, due to discoveries you make or complications that arise from a plot twist. I saved often, played conservatively, and typically took 2-5 hours real time (1-1/2 to 4 hours as logged by the in-game timer) to accomplish each mission. IIRC, about 1 in 6 missions do not require resource management: purely tactical scenarios.

So, about 3-1/2 hours (real time) per mission times 10 each of Human, Zerg, and Protoss missions = over 100 hours of single-player campaign game time.

The mission briefings are done very well. They are delivered verbally, often with members of the same facton squabbling amongst themselves; plus you get a text summary of your goals. If and when a mission's goals change, the change is delivered as an in-game verbal communique followed with a text summary of the new goal.

The opening scenes are of nice length. The cutscenes are fairly short, and occur (IIRC) about every 3 missions. All clips are of very high quality and help the story along (as does everthing in the game); and even include excellently subtle foreshadowing. (Wow! I didn't think game designers even knew what "foreshadowing" meant, let alone implement it!) The sound and music quality, use and variety is great.

The three races (Human, Zerg, and Protoss) have very different capabilities that require different strategies and tactics; yet the races are very well balanced, and all three are very enjoyable to play. (It is almost like playing three different, but similar games; so it doesn't get boring.) I think Blizzard pulled off an incredible feat in simultaneously accomplishing all three of these objectives.

All-in-all, StarCraft single-player was a very immersive and enjoyable experience with a storyline that pulls you along. Multi-player was fun, too, with a wide array of gaming activities and requires a much more agressive playing style. However, I ran into an awful lot of snotty-nosed kids (maybe 1 out of every 6 games) who seemed to get their jollies by doing their best to ruin the gaming experience for others.

I have completed about 4 missions in SC Brood Wars single-player (one of which was purely tactical: no resource management. The reviews say that SC BW is much harder than SC; but I guess I just haven't run into those missions, yet. So far: very enjoyable.

What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

[ 10-13-2003, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

Lymond · 10-15-2003, 12:38 PM

NobleNick,

Thanks for the reply about StarCraft. I think I'll pick it up the next time I see that box set. I still have BG unopened, but I'm afraid that by the time I have the time and want to play it, I'll only be able to find it in "the bin" or Ebay.

I don't know what the deal is with the spectral guards. I thought I had killed most of them, but was attacked by another group of eight. I don't know if it's a saving roll or what, but sometimes I set off a couple (which I can handle), and other times they're all after me. At one point I counted twelve on the screen!

Lymond

ps- I have the same gaming policy as relates to kids. I have four and I've only let them watch around town or other harmless places. If they come in at other times, I just pause it and turn off the screen.

Twid · 10-15-2003, 01:00 PM

lol..starcraft is awesome online...watch out for zergy rush!

Sonic · 10-17-2003, 03:24 PM

Thanks *NobleNick* you helped me to whit some problems whit theese veary good writen postes.thanks alot.

NobleNick · 10-20-2003, 02:45 PM

Sonic,

You are very welome.

What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

NobleNick · 10-27-2003, 12:53 PM

Lymond,

I know this is way off topic, but wanted to give one last update: Now that I've done the entire Protoss campaign and a few of the human, I think I understand why the reviews say BW expansion is hard. It is taking me an average of 2-1/2 to 4 hours game time, and about 4 to 6 hours of real time to complete each mission. It would be longer if I did not save so often and to incremental game names. These missions aren't any harder than I remember the original SC missions (maybe I'm getting better?); but they are definitely longer. Translation: more playing time!!

Also, I've only seen two cutscenes so far in BW (one long one at intro to game and another long one at end of Protoss campaign); so wonder if I remembered correctly about the frequency of cutscenes in the original SC.

What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

Lymond · 10-28-2003, 12:49 PM

NobleNick,

Thanks for the update. I picked up the SC game pack over the weekend and it looks great. Once I finish TOTLM and HOW, I'll give it a go.

I'll PM you later about where in the castle you are. I"m sure we're about to get busted by the off-topic police.

Lymond

kartetse · 11-04-2003, 09:27 AM

NobleNick, Lymond, how's it that there seem to be a couple of 'older' guys (and I'm sure, gals) playing IWD + HoW + TotL? I'm also 2 kids richer and have to switch off often for PG reasons. How did you guys get into gaming - have you been doing it for a while now or are you relatively new?

A quick question about the dual classing: Do you think it would be worthwhile to dual-class my level 10 Abjurer specialist to Bard or will he eventually become, you know like, very strong as mage, that is powerful enough to not, maybe need a bard?

kartetse

[ 11-04-2003, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: kartetse ]

Lymond · 11-04-2003, 11:11 AM

kartetse,

I answered your other post, but to provide a little more detail..

I got a computer a few years ago and started looking at games. A friend recommended Diablo 2, which I played for a while. After I got bored with that, I started IWD and love the depth of play it offers.

With kids, I only play at night. Since I started playing, I don't really watch TV anymore, except for a couple of shows.

To answer your dual class question, it really depends on your party. Unless you need a fighter, I wouldn't dual class from a mage at this point. He is just starting to get strong at this point and will be valuable in the game. If you dual class at this point, he will be frozen for all time at that level mage, but start from scratch as a fighter. I prefer starting as the fighter. He's more useful as a fighter in the early part of the game, and always maintains that toughness. Then, when you dual class, your other party members will be in a position to protect him better, and you will be getting more experience and blast through those low levels quickly.

As for substituting for a bard, I'm going to let NobleNick take that one. He has had some great posts lately detailing the benefits of bards. The bottom line to me is that they can do some things that nobody else can. I view their spell casting ability only as a bonus.

Lymond

pritchke · 11-04-2003, 11:15 AM

You cannot dual to a bard. A bard is a bard is a bard. Yah! Or a bard by any other name is still a bard! What I mean is a bard is a class on its own and you can not dual or multi class them. In order to have a bard you have to start the character from scratch. But Lymond is correct, they are great.

[ 11-04-2003, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

10-15-2003, 12:38 PM	#22
Lymond Manshoon Join Date: February 6, 2003 Location: Boston, MA Age: 56 Posts: 175	NobleNick, Thanks for the reply about StarCraft. I think I'll pick it up the next time I see that box set. I still have BG unopened, but I'm afraid that by the time I have the time and want to play it, I'll only be able to find it in "the bin" or Ebay. I don't know what the deal is with the spectral guards. I thought I had killed most of them, but was attacked by another group of eight. I don't know if it's a saving roll or what, but sometimes I set off a couple (which I can handle), and other times they're all after me. At one point I counted twelve on the screen! Lymond ps- I have the same gaming policy as relates to kids. I have four and I've only let them watch around town or other harmless places. If they come in at other times, I just pause it and turn off the screen. __________________ Hard work pays off in the long run. Laziness pays off right now.

10-17-2003, 03:24 PM	#24
Sonic Zhentarim Guard Join Date: July 9, 2003 Location: Amn Age: 35 Posts: 352	Thanks NobleNick you helped me to whit some problems whit theese veary good writen postes.thanks alot. __________________ Never Underestimate Your Enemy.<br /><br />A Normal Dagger in the right hand\'s is as Dangerous as Crom Faeyr.

10-28-2003, 12:49 PM	#27
Lymond Manshoon Join Date: February 6, 2003 Location: Boston, MA Age: 56 Posts: 175	NobleNick, Thanks for the update. I picked up the SC game pack over the weekend and it looks great. Once I finish TOTLM and HOW, I'll give it a go. I'll PM you later about where in the castle you are. I"m sure we're about to get busted by the off-topic police. Lymond __________________ Hard work pays off in the long run. Laziness pays off right now.

11-04-2003, 11:11 AM	#29
Lymond Manshoon Join Date: February 6, 2003 Location: Boston, MA Age: 56 Posts: 175	kartetse, I answered your other post, but to provide a little more detail.. I got a computer a few years ago and started looking at games. A friend recommended Diablo 2, which I played for a while. After I got bored with that, I started IWD and love the depth of play it offers. With kids, I only play at night. Since I started playing, I don't really watch TV anymore, except for a couple of shows. To answer your dual class question, it really depends on your party. Unless you need a fighter, I wouldn't dual class from a mage at this point. He is just starting to get strong at this point and will be valuable in the game. If you dual class at this point, he will be frozen for all time at that level mage, but start from scratch as a fighter. I prefer starting as the fighter. He's more useful as a fighter in the early part of the game, and always maintains that toughness. Then, when you dual class, your other party members will be in a position to protect him better, and you will be getting more experience and blast through those low levels quickly. As for substituting for a bard, I'm going to let NobleNick take that one. He has had some great posts lately detailing the benefits of bards. The bottom line to me is that they can do some things that nobody else can. I view their spell casting ability only as a bonus. Lymond __________________ Hard work pays off in the long run. Laziness pays off right now.

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10-13-2003, 10:25 AM	#21
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 65 Posts: 1,045	Twid, I'm running XP also. Hmmmm... THREE computers in the house and you still can't find something that will run IWD/HoW? Heh, heh, heh: I don't know whether to feel sorry for you or not... Lymond, I'll take your experience under advisement and be fully rested before entering the main door. I have (I believe) one last big battle in the crypt; and have started it twice, but not finished. The problem is that we have several young children that I have agreed with my wife, should not be watching "fighting games." So, two times now, I have almost had these bad boys licked when in pops my son, fresh out of bed or just back from school, and the game goes off with no save. (I don't mind much: sort of adds to the challenge!) I don't know whether or not to recommend StarCraft and SC Brood Wars to you; so I'll just share my experience. There is a bit of resource management, which I don't particularly like; but despite this, I found SC very enjoyable. The single player campaigns were challenging without being frustrating. The storyline is very good, holds more than a few surprises, and the campaigns are intricately woven into it. Often a mission will start with a goal and then the requirements of the mission will change, due to discoveries you make or complications that arise from a plot twist. I saved often, played conservatively, and typically took 2-5 hours real time (1-1/2 to 4 hours as logged by the in-game timer) to accomplish each mission. IIRC, about 1 in 6 missions do not require resource management: purely tactical scenarios. So, about 3-1/2 hours (real time) per mission times 10 each of Human, Zerg, and Protoss missions = over 100 hours of single-player campaign game time. The mission briefings are done very well. They are delivered verbally, often with members of the same facton squabbling amongst themselves; plus you get a text summary of your goals. If and when a mission's goals change, the change is delivered as an in-game verbal communique followed with a text summary of the new goal. The opening scenes are of nice length. The cutscenes are fairly short, and occur (IIRC) about every 3 missions. All clips are of very high quality and help the story along (as does everthing in the game); and even include excellently subtle foreshadowing. (Wow! I didn't think game designers even knew what "foreshadowing" meant, let alone implement it!) The sound and music quality, use and variety is great. The three races (Human, Zerg, and Protoss) have very different capabilities that require different strategies and tactics; yet the races are very well balanced, and all three are very enjoyable to play. (It is almost like playing three different, but similar games; so it doesn't get boring.) I think Blizzard pulled off an incredible feat in simultaneously accomplishing all three of these objectives. All-in-all, StarCraft single-player was a very immersive and enjoyable experience with a storyline that pulls you along. Multi-player was fun, too, with a wide array of gaming activities and requires a much more agressive playing style. However, I ran into an awful lot of snotty-nosed kids (maybe 1 out of every 6 games) who seemed to get their jollies by doing their best to ruin the gaming experience for others. I have completed about 4 missions in SC Brood Wars single-player (one of which was purely tactical: no resource management. The reviews say that SC BW is much harder than SC; but I guess I just haven't run into those missions, yet. So far: very enjoyable. What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!! [ 10-13-2003, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

10-15-2003, 01:00 PM	#23
Twid Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: September 24, 2003 Location: Chicago Age: 49 Posts: 26	lol..starcraft is awesome online...watch out for zergy rush!

10-20-2003, 02:45 PM	#25
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 65 Posts: 1,045	Sonic, You are very welome. What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!!

10-27-2003, 12:53 PM	#26
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 65 Posts: 1,045	Lymond, I know this is way off topic, but wanted to give one last update: Now that I've done the entire Protoss campaign and a few of the human, I think I understand why the reviews say BW expansion is hard. It is taking me an average of 2-1/2 to 4 hours game time, and about 4 to 6 hours of real time to complete each mission. It would be longer if I did not save so often and to incremental game names. These missions aren't any harder than I remember the original SC missions (maybe I'm getting better?); but they are definitely longer. Translation: more playing time!! Also, I've only seen two cutscenes so far in BW (one long one at intro to game and another long one at end of Protoss campaign); so wonder if I remembered correctly about the frequency of cutscenes in the original SC. What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!!

11-04-2003, 09:27 AM	#28
kartetse The Magister Join Date: October 10, 2003 Location: New Zealand Age: 55 Posts: 114	NobleNick, Lymond, how's it that there seem to be a couple of 'older' guys (and I'm sure, gals) playing IWD + HoW + TotL? I'm also 2 kids richer and have to switch off often for PG reasons. How did you guys get into gaming - have you been doing it for a while now or are you relatively new? A quick question about the dual classing: Do you think it would be worthwhile to dual-class my level 10 Abjurer specialist to Bard or will he eventually become, you know like, very strong as mage, that is powerful enough to not, maybe need a bard? kartetse [ 11-04-2003, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: kartetse ]

11-04-2003, 11:15 AM	#30
pritchke Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess Join Date: September 5, 2001 Location: Calgary, AB Age: 50 Posts: 3,491	You cannot dual to a bard. A bard is a bard is a bard. Yah! Or a bard by any other name is still a bard! What I mean is a bard is a class on its own and you can not dual or multi class them. In order to have a bard you have to start the character from scratch. But Lymond is correct, they are great. [ 11-04-2003, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

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