What do you all think of wizards and warriors?

[HolyWarrior]

I don't know what version of W&W you got, but mine was HORRIBLY buggy and I couldn't take three steps without crashing to desktop.

[Gimli]

I disagree with the riddles in Wiz 8 being too hard to decipher. Unless we're talking about finding the retro dungeons, but they are easter egg type places that don't effect your ability to finish the game. The real key is to pry as much information as you can out of all the people you can talk to for the most part.

"If I had bought wizardry 8 when it had just came out... there would be no way I would figure out how to drink the potion and eat the flower on the 8th bough of the trynnie tree. 0% chance."

It's very easy if you talk to Fuzzfazz, he tells you exactly what to do and where to do it.

"What about just getting the black box to arnika?"

You find a broken black box in arnika which is a pretty huge clue that the machine in the spaceport will read an undamaged one. Where to find it is at first unknown, but once you come across it in bayjin, it would be pretty obvious it would work in the arnika machine.

"Actually I dont think I would have ever even discovered the mook exist without refering to a walkthrough... and without the mook, you are missing one item and can never finish the game so I might never have been able to finish it( I still havent btw)"

How could you miss the moook? Their building is right in arnika - if with an automap you didn't explore all the locations, then of course you're going to miss things.

"Never would have figured out what '100% trang item' to bring back to the umpani and would have completed 0 of their quests."

Well you know they want you to scout out the t'rang in marten's bluff and bring something back from there, so basically if you search around there, you'd find the t'rang arm - if after fully searching you didn't find anything else that seemed to fit the 100% t'rang description, I think it's reasonable to have given the arm a shot.

[the mighty stamar]

Actually even finding the area where the trang arm is entirely exceeded me. I never would have completed that in a million years, I spent hours.

You pull a cord on a catapult and it lets you in the courtyard to the other side of the squasher machine. I can say in all honesty I never would have figured that without a hint.
There are many things like this in games. I dont think of it as negative personally I like it a lot. I give it a shot but if I cant get it I ask for help.
I dont think of this level of difficulty as negative at all. The puzzles in wizardry 8 are difficult. Just the rapax area which I just came through is extremely difficult in and of itself, and all the peices to the puzzles are there in the area.
But if someone sees it as a big negative that they cant figure out all the puzzles in a game by themselves, that it is difficult, then they might not appreciate wizardry 8. Wizardry 8 is set in general at what I would consider high difficulty.
Many of the difficult puzzles you can get wrong and still complete the game. There are a couple that you cannot.

No, I went a long long way into the game before I found the mook. The xray machine doesnt reveal them until you get there lol. I never walked into the cubbyhole. If I at least would have been told in the game, that the mook youre supposed to deliver the letter to is in Arnika, I would have been able to scour it and had a chance at finding it, but without that with the whole world to pick from I dont think I ever would have found it without a hint.... some people may have found them first trip to arnika.

[Kakero]

I don't think looking at walkthrough is cheating, why?

1. The riddles, the riddles is very very hard on me. I don't even know what the riddles are asking( I'm a none english speaker okay ). so without taking a peak at walkthrough I might just stuck there forever when ever there is a riddle. yes, this is the same for ALL the game out there that got riddle.

2. the broken bridge at sixth bough or is it seventh? If no walkthrough, I would never have known how to fix that bridge. in fact, I thought it was a game stopping bug. I was there cursing the developer for this until I take a peek at the walkthrough.

i think I figured out the other things by myself.

[galic]

It's not that someone can't figure out the puzzles in a given game. My point is; How do you know that you are going to became insane when you talk to Marten, and can't be cure at all unless you were waring the helmet? The tips that this game gives you are very vage, to say the least, I guest that you are not suppost to compleat the game, unless you spend some more money on the book (you know waht I mean, money is money). Are you telling me that you can figure them out without any help?

[Kakero]

There's no need to waste money on books. there are always good people out there who will post the walkthrough on the internet. it's just a matter of searching the site really.

[EEWorzelle]

One of the keys to this game is thoroughness. Many of the veteran Wizardry players complained that there are no puzzles in Wizardry 8.

This is not a matter of intelligence, it is more technique. As Gimli demonstrated for the specific "puzzles" encountered, there are lots of hints for everything that needs to be done inside of the game.

It is pretty basic to check out every building found, to see if there is an entrance and for every object to see if it can be manipulated, if a "specific item" is needed to do so, or if it is just part of the scenery. It can take a long time to literally go everywhere and check out everything, but that's the game. It's fun. The hints and clues are often not where you expect them to be, but they are there, usually in several places. Retero dungeons, as Gimli says, are a special case, but a few players claim to have figured out one or more on their own.

Actually I agree that with those players who claim there are few puzzles in W8, but that's a good thing. Wizardry 8 is, IMO, most fun when viewed as a character development strategy game and there is plenty of difficulty there, if one goes and looks for it, by playing challenging parties. The problems with long battles are not a problem at lower difficulty levels nor at higher difficulty, even expert, once player skills improve. There is also a utility available to speed up combat, if desired (although only player skills will prevent getting surrounded by too many enemies at once and toasted, if you are not careful.) Magic heavy parties tend to have shorter battles also, but are more difficult to play, at first.

I played W&W a bit and liked it... some. It has the same feel of a console RPG in the sense of channels one must followed when outdoors. There is no freedom of movement in every direction such as in MM6, 7 and 8. Those later games were 3D, in the sense of flying and 2D freedom of motion, while W&W and MM9 (the later played all the way through twice) seem more 1D in the sense of channeled movement only along certain paths. I am referring to game play, not what is "technically" called 3D or 2D. Wizardry 8 does not have flying, of course, but the freedom of motion in two dimensions (when outdoors, in places like the swamp) is excellent. In places like the Rift there are even some 3D aspects that are pretty cool, too. This is just my impression of the feeling those games give and I do intend to play W&W more, at some point, and give it's merits a better opportunity. The "channeled" effect is probably just due to necessary limitations of the "engines" used for those games.

[Desdicado]

Originally posted by galic: it takes sooooooooo long to figth the enemy that on some figths I can go for a beer (or any other thing) and they steal be figthing when I'm back. For sure the computer is having a great time. But, what do I know. I'm one of those guys that loved "M&M 6". Sorry I'm talking about Wizardry 8.

Totally agree Galic, it's the battles that made me give up on Wiz 8 about 1/2 way through, I just couldn't handle any more 1/2 hour marathons fights with weeds.

Wiz & War is a cool game.

[EEWorzelle]

I took some time last night to review note, games and old posts.

I do not agree with those players who say there are *no* puzzles in W8, there are some. I am especially touched by the plight of those for whom English is not a first language, making what are intended to be trite, easy and meaningless riddles quite difficult.

There is no reason for "riddles" in RPGs, or even adventure games, even though both of the genres think it is part of their identity... yuck. There is, or at least should be, no gratification in being able to track with what some programmer or designer thought was "common sense."

Regarding the broken Ratkin tree bridge, Kakero, I do not know how difficult it would have been. When I first started I went to an exclusively "non-spoiler" board looking for party building strategy tips without spoilers. I remember being quite angry when the puzzle there was spoiled, in passing, by someone thoughtlessly posting in one of the new party threads. So I do not honestly know how hard it would have been to figure it out.

Difficulty in these games should, IMO, come from strategy and long term choices, rather than quirky and trite puzzles. In early adventure games it was possible to get stuck for dozens of hours with no progress in the game. That is not lack of wit or skill, it is poor design.

Desdicado, please give Wizardry 8 another try. I have read a lot of your posts and we love some of the same games. Long battles only occur in three situations in this game:

1) Prior to the first city, if one has not proceeded efficiently enough relative to the difficulty level one has been playing it (cumulative effect).

2) Around allies. They can help you fight but are slow and, once you proceed a ways, not much help.

3) A few battles later in the game that are intended to be long.

I am being honest and straight with you when I say that the problem with long battles mostly goes away. If you play the entire game through to the end, with or without the combat speed-up utility, and you still hate and find the combat system too slow, then I will freely admit I was wrong. It is not my intent to waste your time or money. Buy it (video stores have it again now). Play it. Call me a liar if you don't end up loving it.

[the mighty stamar]

I have noticed this also, that wizardry 8 made a new shipment to major game stores recently.
Seems strange from a developer that no longer exists. But the truth is its one of a kind and it is a much better game than the rpgs released in the last year. Makes me wonder if there will be a wizardry 9 after all.