Which is more powerful?

[Lord]

Originally posted by Xen: Sorcerer is the God of magic.

No question about it. A solo sorceror can take out many difficult enemies in a matter of seconds without a struggle.

[whathuh]

Since you include Wild mage, you have to include the sorcerer uber-abilties

Chain contingency (Image,Image,Image,self,helpless)-> Image -> PFMW on all 4 -> Shapeshift (mind flayer). Screw that "level draining" combo. These 4 babies are immune to everything except magic and true sight (spell immunity anyone?). If you want massive destruction, imp haste before you shapeshift. another contingency would definately be overkill...

Did I mention improved alacrity -> planetar x5 -> Animate dead x6 -> haste? Rips through baddies like no tomorrow.

Simulacrum -> restoration (via planetar) -> wish for sleep -> double the power with attackability!

Of course, I have had difficulty destroying areas in WK with no prep time.

Non tob, I guess I would have to go with cleric mage, but only if they can become proficient in level 7 spells (I'm not a fan of level 8 spells).

[Assassin]

No question about it. A solo sorceror can take out many difficult enemies in a matter of seconds without a struggle.

So can a C/M. What I would really like to stress is that in my experience, those Liches are the main problem in my solo classes. And the C/M has the advantage of being able to insta-kill them, while a Sorcerer has to pretty much wait out the 20 rounds required for the SIs to wear off.

Also, the extra clerical side gives many different protective spells, without sacrificing a precious spell slot. And sometimes, that Fire Storm comes in mighty handy...

Chain contingency ignores summon limits, so try putting three summon Devas in a chain contingency set to trigger on 'see enemy'.

AFAIK, Tactics removes this trick.

Since you include Wild mage, you have to include the sorcerer uber-abilties Chain contingency (Image,Image,Image,self,helpless)-> Image -> PFMW on all 4 -> Shapeshift (mind flayer). Screw that "level draining" combo. These 4 babies are immune to everything except magic and true sight (spell immunity anyone?). If you want massive destruction, imp haste before you shapeshift. another contingency would definately be overkill... Did I mention improved alacrity -> planetar x5 -> Animate dead x6 -> haste? Rips through baddies like no tomorrow. Simulacrum -> restoration (via planetar) -> wish for sleep -> double the power with attackability! Of course, I have had difficulty destroying areas in WK with no prep time. Non tob, I guess I would have to go with cleric mage, but only if they can become proficient in level 7 spells (I'm not a fan of level 8 spells).

Even with ToB, a C/M can do every single one of these. Sure, maybe not to the extent of a Sorcerer, but well enough to dispatch any encounter in the game. After all, who cares if you can destroy them in 2 rounds instead of 1? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 03-22-2005, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: Assassin ]

[shamrock_uk]

Hmm...the more I think about this, the more I think that wild mage beats sorceror.

1) The wild mage has access to the same contingencies / mirror image cheese etc as listed above.

2) When using wild surge (assuming level 40 with imp chaos shield) he gets the sorceror benefit of being able to cast whatever spell he likes without having to plan in advance

3) Which gets combined with the fact that the wild mage can do this with the full mage selection - the sorceror is more limited here.

Of course, there's always the risk of sending yourself to sleep by mistake...but that's all part of the fun

[ 03-22-2005, 08:22 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]

[whathuh]

Cleric mage needs all 4/5 of those level 7 slots reserved for project image. Sorcerer could care less.

A note on the wild mage. I suppose it its much more useful because of limited wish and its power to restore spells every casting, instead of continuously recasting it like you do with wish.

Doesn't the limited wish vampire spawn occur with a low wisdom? You lose quite a few spells without a high wisdom. Then again, they are mostly pos spells anyway, so I guess I answered my own rebuttal.

Also, how can a cleric/mage summon 5 planetars in one round? as far as I know that is impossible.

Doesn't the limited wish vampire spawn occur with a low wisdom? You lose quite a few spells without a high wisdom. Then again, they are mostly pos spells anyway, so I guess I answered my own rebuttal.

Ring of Folly, and remove curse.

[lost prophet]

Damn my computer stuffed up when i was posting quite a long reply and i cant be bothered writing it again so ill cut to the chase.


sorcerer.

Hmm, quite a debate, eh?

I have decided that the Wild Mage is the most powerful, for two main reasons.

1. Ability to cast level one spells as level 9 spells.

2. When you use wild surge, you usually get a great result (when using chaos/improved chaos shield.

[Gangrell]

Originally posted by The Mountain Hare: Hmm, quite a debate, eh? I have decided that the Wild Mage is the most powerful, for two main reasons. 1. Ability to cast level one spells as level 9 spells. 2. When you use wild surge, you usually get a great result (when using chaos/improved chaos shield.

At what point that early in the game will you first off actually get a ninth level spell and secondly when will it be a matter of life and death taking a gamble on a spell that powerful in the beginning?

Alright, Chaos Shield works, but not fullproof enough. Improved Chaos Shield is what, a 7th level spell? So you won't actually have the cards stacked in your favor until maybe the mid of the game. The Wild Mage is a spoof class, it's meant to have fun with, not to be taken seriously. If you take it as a serious class in a heated battle, you will die or be harmed more than helped, I know, even with ICS, I've had my characters petrified before, not a good thing to have happen.

Protagonist: Feel my power Irenicus! *casts Meteor Swarm... has a sex change*
Irenicus: ...
Protagonist: Well sh*t.

[Aragorn1]

Originally posted by White Lancer: Cleric/Mage = best tank in the game, so many buff spells, contingencies with cleric spells ect. Just so many options

Are you mad? Kensai/mage is the best tank, dualling celestial fury and dakon zerth's blade its unstoppable. I would hack the c/m to bits. Especially when it removes you buffs. Although this could be recipricated imho a kensai would beat a cleric devoid of buffs.