Final thoughts on the Priest of Talos. Possible Spoilers.

[Bardan the Slayer]

Originally posted by Alson: quote: There is nothing a cleric can not only nullify, but, also kill in some fashion.

I would be interested to know how a solo Cleric can kill Kangaxx. Sure, you can hit him once or twice a round with Crom for 2-4 damage, but he'll regenerate before you'll have enough time to say your god's name. [img]tongue.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Mace of Disruption?

[Pyrenk]

There is nothing a cleric can not only nullify, but, also kill in some fashion.

I would be interested to know how a solo Cleric can kill Kangaxx. Sure, you can hit him once or twice a round with Crom for 2-4 damage, but he'll regenerate before you'll have enough time to say your god's name. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

And yes, i consider the use of the Mace of Disruption too cheesy and not legitimate. Call me purist.

[Pyrenk]

Bah..the whole message is supposed to be a quote..and edit doesnt work..

[Butterfingers]

Well, I used the Improved Mace of Disruption. I don't consider it cheesy, it does exactly what it is meant to do.

As for a Cleric being nearly invunerable, and how to protect against stuff like ADHW, well, lemme see. When a mage is spotted, summon army. Cast Sanctuary. Let Mage waste all of his good spells on army. Stay undetectable until I choose to let loose. Cast Silence or Miscast Magic. Mage is now nullified completely, unless they choose to melee.

Clerics are the buffers. Chant, Bless, so many good buffing spells, spells I can use to actually improve my own summon's saving throws. Defensive Harmony ROCKS. Protection from Evil in a wide radius.

Sadly, Baldur's Gate is missing a lot of the Cleric's better spells. Like Sticks to Snakes. With each level of the caster, he can summon a d4s worth of serpents (Gaining a huge army later) with a chance of getting asps. Asps are highly poisonous and with a level 10 cleric having a chance to summon up to 40 snakes, odds are pretty good there are going to be asps in the mob of wiggling serpents. In BG, I must admit, mages got most of their better spells. Clerics got a little screwed. One spell I miss terribly is Festering Hoard, a spell that only Evil or Neutral clerics can cast. It is a level 3 or 4 spell IIRC, that summons a d10 worth of rats, per level. Anybody mobbed by the rats must roll a save vs breath weapon at -4 or run away in fear every single round. Also, they must save vs death or be diseased. I forget what the damage is though, but, that part sorta stunk. To wide of a range due to funky dice rolls, either did tons of damage all at once or very little at all. Other fun spells, like Death Chant were fantastic. All enemies in the area had saving throws reduced by 6, saving throw vs death reduced by 10.

Spells or not, the cleric still kicks butt. I just wish that the makers of this game had done a slighter better job on them. My guess is, with all of the cleric NPCs (And the romance options as well) being divine casters, they probably thought nobody would play clerics.

Edit.

Something I forgot to mention, something I am actually angry over. Cleric's summon undead spell BLOWS! At low level, you get skeletons, and, occasionally skeletal archers. Then you get skeletal warriors and even better archers. At level 20ish, you start getting the fun stuff like vampires and doomguards, really neat stuff. Clerics got HOSED! Hosed I tell you. Certian parts of the spell system are horribly broken.

BTW, as for a mage getting endless spells through the way you mention, well, that's cheating and taking advantage of the games broken engine. Wonderous Recall allows you to recall 2 spell slots.

[ 01-08-2003, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: Butterfingers ]

[Alson]

Originally posted by Butterfingers: Well, I used the Improved Mace of Disruption. I don't consider it cheesy, it does exactly what it is meant to do.

To each his own.

As for a Cleric being nearly invunerable, and how to protect against stuff like ADHW, well, lemme see. When a mage is spotted, summon army.

You mean, summon one or two creatures? You can't summon more than that in one round - and one round is all that takes for a Mage to cast Time Stop.

Cast Silence or Miscast Magic. Mage is now nullified completely, unless they choose to melee.

That is, of course, assuming the Mage failed his save. Or has not memorized Vocalize. Or has no Vocalize scrolls. Or does not wear the Amulet of Power. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Clerics are the buffers. Chant, Bless, so many good buffing spells, spells I can use to actually improve my own summon's saving throws. Defensive Harmony ROCKS. Protection from Evil in a wide radius.

Mass Invisibility grants Invisibility effect, and +4 bonus to AC, Saves and THAC0 - which is already superior to everything the Cleric can offer his summos, and lasts much longer than Defensive Harmony. Not to mention that the Mages' Skeleton Warriors will crush the Cleric's ones, since they are Hasted.

Sadly, Baldur's Gate is missing a lot of the Cleric's better spells.

BG2 is really discriminating against Clerics. Healing spells suck in comparison to healing potions, while Mages get all the uber items (Vecna, Magi) and the uber spells (Project Image, Mislead).

BTW, as for a mage getting endless spells through the way you mention, well, that's cheating and taking advantage of the games broken engine.

Huh?! Cheating?!
I would be grateful if you could show me were the cheating part comes in.

Does casting Wish considered "cheating"?
Does letting your Clones cast spells on you while you have Spell Trap on considered "cheating"?

I fail to see your point.

Wonderous Recall allows you to recall 2 spell slots.

But requires spending one slot on casting it.

[ 01-08-2003, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: Alson ]

[Rataxes]

I think they left out the Serpent and Rat spells because they would most likely clog up the game pretty badly if they spawn anywhere near as many summons as you claim.

[Pyrenk]

Well, who's up for an Anti-Magic clan?

[Butterfingers]

Well if the darn game worked the way it was meant to, summon undead should allow a number of summons based on level, like it did in BG1.

Miscast Magic is eeeeeeeevil. Read the description carefully, spells like vocalize or the amulet of power will not protect you. Miscast Magic turns dragons into cream puffs.

Also Sanctuary is broken in game. Sanctuary was meant to hide the priest completely, undectable by any means, sheltered completely by his or her God.

Still, broken bits aside, the cleric is awfully powerful.

[Alson]

Originally posted by Butterfingers: Miscast Magic is eeeeeeeevil. Read the description carefully, spells like vocalize or the amulet of power will not protect you. Miscast Magic turns dragons into cream puffs.

Nope, but Spell Immunity will.

That's the thing - a Mage can counter anything the Cleric throws at him. The Cleric can't. If we're taking ToB into account, things get even worse for the Cleric.

[Pyrenk]

Can a mage cast a 110 damage Lightning Bolt, or make himself immune to elemental damage with one spell? Didnt think so (Let me have my fun)