cheating or not--whats your oppinion?

[Brennihelvete]

Originally posted by Radek: I think LennonCook is mostly right. Here are my definitions: Cheating = using any kind of "third party" programs (programs, which are not authorized by the creators of the game) for modifying the game behavior. Using binary editors, game editors, viewers, or special programs that interfere with the game run is cheating. Cheezy style = taking advantage from an obvious bug or misunderstanding in the game. Let us note, that using CLUA Console or "cheat codes" is not cheating because it is an integral and documented part of the game. IMO, the console and the "cheat codes" should not be present in the game at all. Otherwise, we cannot sentence players which begin the game with Blackrazors in hands of the "heroes". On the other hand, "mods" are more difficult question. If you install a "mod" then you are playing a different game. Therefore, it's a question whether a "mod" is cheating. IMO, the XP cap remover is a "mod".

I disagree, mods in BG2 either: Fix Bugs, Make the game more challeging, Make the game more enjoyable. I wouldnt consider mods as cheats. Trainers and hacks would be cheats. Like a GOD mode trainer, or a 1000000 gold when pressing spacebar trainer would be considered as a cheat. Though you dont need trainers in this game cuz you got the allmighty CLUAConsole which IMO is Biowares own trainer that lets you acces most cheats anyway. I dont see any trouble using cheats as long as you enjoy the game yourself. If a guy wants to start out with the best equipment in the game as a lvl 40 character and he enjoyes that, then let him!

[Decurion]

Ok, I think to allow my multi-class chars to reach highest levels i'm going to remove the xp cap, could anyone tell me how I can go about doing this?

[Myrddin L'argenton]

I would agree for the finding of items missed because I've missed Gaal's key and can't get Kan'rax's body parts otherwise.

[rhapsody407]

I hate the first two chapters. I use the cheats to set xp to 900k then jump ahead to chapter 3, when the game gets good...
jumping's great, item imports are nice when you realize you screwed up your character, then go to multi and replace him, and need to get his stuff back. If you went to a location where you could legitimately buy an item that you wanted, but you find that you cannot go back- i don't think it's cheating to import the item. When you're running a solo archer and they are saved in a dungeon without any ammo, i dont think its cheating to import some straight normal arrows that you could find on any goblin. Though the dispel arrows make any wizard or dragon fight disgustingly easy. i can honestly say that i've never made it through the game without cheating, simply because the pace is slow without it. Then again, all of my experiences with parties have been failures, i made it almost through the underdark with my solo sorcerer (first time i played)...then there were the uber mindflayers, with all the spell immune sludges, and drow...and it was bad, because i had somehow managed to find myself there at level 12.

My current endeavor is to find a 3 PC party that is versitile, and as easy to control as a solo character. I'm thinking a 3-theif combo...

[Baros]

Originally posted by Myrddin L'argenton: I would agree for the finding of items missed because I've missed Gaal's key and can't get Kan'rax's body parts otherwise.

To me, that example is cheating as the game is designed in that way. It's a bad design decision (there's no plot reason for it to be so), but I'll abide by that. Warping in items that you could have got, but forgot/left behind/dropped accidently is a different matter.

[Legolas The Magnificent]

well in my opinion cheating is a dangerous thing because:

1. it spoils your appetite of challenge

2. it spoils the essence of the game

3. it spoils the intention of the game

4. it spoils your abilities (whatdayahthinkyouare after the game huh? better play solitaire)

hey cheating peeps... heres a good cheat

press
ctrl f4 then click okay

thats will blast your enemies into oblivion

[Sever]

Originally posted by Brennihelvete: If a guy wants to start out with the best equipment in the game as a lvl 40 character and he enjoyes that, then let him![/QB]

This is just MHO, but i find it seriously hard to comprehend enjoying a game like that. The only possible bit of excitement you're likely to get is discovering the one and only item/quest/whatever that you failed to find in your previous games. First time gamers who utilize this are either incredibly important people with way to much workload in their lives, or people with ADD.

Oh, and i do realise that this is only a hypothetical situation. At least, i shudder to think otherwise.

Disclaimer: Uhh.. I hold nothing against people who have no attention span. They're just stupid is all.

[Sever]

[Edit: oops, it must have been a hard night. Just pressed add reply without actually writing anything. Well, either a hard night, or i have ADD. [img]smile.gif[/img] ]

Originally posted by Baros: quote: Originally posted by Myrddin L'argenton: I would agree for the finding of items missed because I've missed Gaal's key and can't get Kan'rax's body parts otherwise.

To me, that example is cheating as the game is designed in that way. It's a bad design decision (there's no plot reason for it to be so), but I'll abide by that. Warping in items that you could have got, but forgot/left behind/dropped accidently is a different matter.[/QUOTE]Gaal's key is a quest item and should not dissappear under any circumstances. If you missed it because you didn't join the cult (side with Gaal) then it still should be around some place. If it wasn't dropped when you killed him, check in all the chests and whatnots in the cult area.

Or you could just cheat.

[ 01-11-2003, 05:51 AM: Message edited by: Sever ]

[Baros]

If you kill Gaal before chatting to him you can NEVER get his key. It's obviously a deliberate decision on the part of the designers, therefore I'd abide with it (cluaconsole in this case IS cheating IMO). Personally I think it sucks, but I didn't write the game... If you'd talked to him then dropped the key somewhere that might be a different matter.

[Malthaussen]

Thoughts on "cheating."

1) How does one "cheat" in a game he plays by himself? I rather thought "cheating" was doing something in a competition not allowed under the rules in order to defeat one's opponent. Since CRPG games don't have "opponents" in any reasonable sense of the word, how can one cheat? Anything that adds to one's enjoyment in playing (or replaying) a game is hardly something to be ashamed of, rather it should be celebrated.

2) I've noted that many people denigrate "uber" characters as "unrealistic" or "cheating," and in the latest Bioware product, Icewind Dale 2, the design team decided that all characters should start out with equal points to add to their ability scores, permitting only the creation of rather pedestrian party members. This is silly, and IMO the programs MudMaster has made for the Infinity Engine games are the most useful "cheats" going. See, I like realistic characters, and I've known too many intelligent fighters to believe that an 18 strength necessarily indicates a 3 intelligence. Let me tell you about a friend of mine, named Allen. He is a 6-6 black dude, about 40 right now, who served for several years in the USMC's Force Recon. Force Recon is the USMC's equivilant of the SEALS or the Green Berets. Allen is very big, very strong, and very fast. He has a second or third degree black belt in some form or other of karate, and is an expert marksman in so many weapons you might as well stop counting. He also has a certified IQ of 145 and writes and studies poetry in his leisure time. He is qualified as both a combat medic and an explosives export, and works as a gunsmith/armorer these days. Now,this is a real person, and he's not so different from many people I've known who were in one form of Special Forces or other. How do you create such a character in a CRPG game without resorting to "cheating," unless you want to roll dice for an hour or so to "legitimately" come up with his stats, which probably would add up altogether to around 95-100 ability points?

3) The thing that confuses me most about the "cheating" issue is simply this: why is it an issue at all? Who is grading us on how we play a silly computer game? What difference does it make how we go about doing it? What bragging rights, monetary awards, or potential career advancements are at stake that makes "cheating" in a computer game an action to be deplored or defended?

4) As far as the issue of the intent of the designers is concerned, I find that a rather strange thing to worry about, also. Whose game is it, anyway? I've been a DM since the original D&D rules came out in 1976, and I always thought that the idea of creating a world was to give the players an opportunity to, ah, role-play. I'm not trying to beat my players, and certainly I don't think I'm "competing" with the Bioware design team when I play one of their products. The world-builder creates a world for the players to adventure in. After that, the "game" is "created" by the players, and how they go about it is their business. Surely, this is all the more so the case in a CRPG, which is not interactive in the first place.

5) In sum: cheat away. Whatever floats your boat. And let's face it, fans, replaying BG2 or any CRPG multiple times without some form of "cheating" or third-party assistance would get very old very fast.

Malthaussen