Clerics just as powerful as mages - Page 12

Ezekial · 01-09-2002, 05:40 AM

Equip the cleric with cloak of mirroring and their amulet (forget name)..it'll make em last longer anyway!

StormCast · 01-09-2002, 08:23 AM

Cloac of mirroring is just like a minor globe of invunrebilety. It wont help much, still get blasted from the mage/sorc spells

Dundee Slaytern · 01-10-2002, 01:01 AM

quote:
Originally posted by StormCast:
Cloac of mirroring is just like a minor globe of invunrebilety. It wont help much, still get blasted from the mage/sorc spells

A correction is in order here. Under ToB, the Cloak of Mirroring grants the wearer unlimited Spell Deflection. Think of it as a Cloak of Absorbing instead.

Still will not protect you from Imprisonment though.

StormCast · 01-10-2002, 02:25 AM

Hmmz, I dodn't know that..... Well as u said, the only thing that u cant get imun from is inprisonment, exept the magespell magic imunity that is....

Dundee Slaytern · 01-10-2002, 02:34 AM

Cloak of Mirroring will also not protect the wearer from Psionics and Mental Spells either. Mental Spells include Fear, Confusion and Charm type spells.

Despite all this however, it is still a very cheesy cloak. I prefer wearing the Upgraded Clock of Protection +2 for my solo Sorcerer though.

[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

StormCast · 01-10-2002, 05:29 AM

Like that cloack too, to bad they dont sell the "Cloack of Balduran" from BG1 when u can get the Armor of Balduran.

Thoran · 01-11-2002, 05:07 PM

Call me an newbie since I've never actually gotten in a fight with a high level cleric and mage but It would seem to me that if the cleric has some decent armor and weapons he could take out a mage pretty easily... if he can get close and through his protections enough to whack him with a powerful mace... he'll win.. if he can't he'll lose.

I've been playing Paladin's for years and they seem like a very powerful setup. Fighting prowess combined with cleric spells... a strong one-on-one performer. For playing solo magic users are pretty delicate beasts... until they get to the point where they can summon help.

I think it would come down to how well equipped the Cleric is... if he's fully taking advantage of the more powerful armor and weapons at his disposal a magic user would need to kill him in the first round in order to win I think... after that he'll close and start interfering with spellcasting.

Haddar - Servant of Talos · 01-13-2002, 04:47 AM

Hi all. Haven't been here for quite awhile and noticed this nice little discussion. Having read all these posts I must say I wonder if you guys have played both classes. Now, it was a long time since I played the game, but I'll try to write a good post. Since there are so many spells, situations and circumstances I will not say "if your mage does that, my cleric will do that." "But then my mage will do this to counter your spell." You know what I'm trying to say... If we knew about this duel between a cleric and a mage, the two combatants would have to prepare so many different spells for every possible situation. Now I hear all you mages scream "But I have time stop, Lower resistance and Abi-Dalsim in my contingencies, triggers and god knows what." Well, there are ways around that to.
And no, you can't cast Insect Plague on an invisible character, but you CAN cast it on a friendly creature (for example a summoned creature) standing close to the invisible enemy, and the Insect Plague will spread to him to, even though he is invisible. But as you guys have already stated, that is a druid spell. (Unfortunately, cause it is a really mean spell. And it is better than creeping doom, since it lasts longer. It is not the damage you want with Insect Plague. It is the 100% magic failure.) Now, I haven't soloed a mage, nor a cleric, or I have soloed both. My first solo-character was Haddar, and he is/was a multiclassed evil cleric/mage. I can't say that I used the magespells more or less than the cleric spells. The mage has more firepower with more offensive, direct-hit spells, but the highlevel cleric spells are pretty offensive too and can pack a punch. The cleric spells often work in another way than the mages. They must often be used in conjunction with another spell, then these spells become just devastating. I come to think of Finger Of Death (which in fact IS a direct-hit spell. Isn't it a cleric spell AND a mage spell?)), which is just a darn good spell. "But then I have already cast Death Ward". Yeah right. How many spells can you cast in a couple of rounds? Oh..i forgot. You knew this fight was coming, so you cast Invisibility (staff of magi...ok), Protection from Evil, Armor, Infravision?,Protection from petrification, reflected Image, Shield, Blur, Mirror image, Resist Fear, Non-Detection, protection from Cold, protection from Fire, protection from Normal missiles?, Fireshield, and so forth and so forth. And how often do you run around with Death Ward memorized? I didn't even once. Ok, but only when I knew what was coming, which is kinda unfair. But you guys have already stated that. Anyway, if Finger Of Death is not offensive, then what is?
And yes, clerics only have up to level 7 spells, but in my opinion they make up for it with better lowlevel spells. At least _I_ used the "clerical" lowlevel spells more than the ones I got from the mage side. Well, who would win this battle? I honestly don't know. Luck, and skill of the player handling each character would have a high influence on the outcome. And if the players were equally matched in skill, I would say luck would determine the outcome. But if you want power, go for the multiclass cleric/mage. There you have endless possibilities, and can literally play with your enemies, testing new combos. It is veeeery slow in the lowlevels (beginning), but if you solo, you will level reasonably fast anyway.

Have a nice day all! =)

Haddar - Servant of Talos · 01-13-2002, 04:50 AM

Oh, and sorry for my English. I'm from Sweden. =)

Dundee Slaytern · 01-13-2002, 08:13 PM

Yes, multiclassed Cleric/Mages are deadly. [img]smile.gif[/img]

01-09-2002, 05:40 AM	#111
Ezekial The Magister Join Date: November 1, 2001 Location: Bournemouth, England Posts: 114	Equip the cleric with cloak of mirroring and their amulet (forget name)..it'll make em last longer anyway! __________________ I will strew your flesh upon the mountains, and fill the valleys with your carcass. I will drench the land even to the mountains with your flowing blood...<br />Ezekiel 32:5

01-09-2002, 08:23 AM	#112
StormCast Dungeon Master Join Date: December 5, 2001 Location: Norway Posts: 66	Cloac of mirroring is just like a minor globe of invunrebilety. It wont help much, still get blasted from the mage/sorc spells __________________ Three Rings for the elven kings under the sky,<br />Seven for the dvarf lords in their halls of stone,<br />Nine for mortal men doomed to die,<br />And One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne,<br />In the lands of Mordor where the shadows lie.<p>One Ring to rule them all,<br />One Ring to find them,<br />One ring to bring them all,<br />And in the darkness bind them.<br />In the lands of Mordor where the shadows lie.<p><br />StormCast

01-10-2002, 01:01 AM	#113
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 42 Posts: 11,063	quote: Originally posted by StormCast: Cloac of mirroring is just like a minor globe of invunrebilety. It wont help much, still get blasted from the mage/sorc spells A correction is in order here. Under ToB, the Cloak of Mirroring grants the wearer unlimited Spell Deflection. Think of it as a Cloak of Absorbing instead. Still will not protect you from Imprisonment though.

01-10-2002, 02:25 AM	#114
StormCast Dungeon Master Join Date: December 5, 2001 Location: Norway Posts: 66	Hmmz, I dodn't know that..... Well as u said, the only thing that u cant get imun from is inprisonment, exept the magespell magic imunity that is.... __________________ Three Rings for the elven kings under the sky,<br />Seven for the dvarf lords in their halls of stone,<br />Nine for mortal men doomed to die,<br />And One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne,<br />In the lands of Mordor where the shadows lie.<p>One Ring to rule them all,<br />One Ring to find them,<br />One ring to bring them all,<br />And in the darkness bind them.<br />In the lands of Mordor where the shadows lie.<p><br />StormCast

01-10-2002, 05:29 AM	#116
StormCast Dungeon Master Join Date: December 5, 2001 Location: Norway Posts: 66	Like that cloack too, to bad they dont sell the "Cloack of Balduran" from BG1 when u can get the Armor of Balduran. __________________ Three Rings for the elven kings under the sky,<br />Seven for the dvarf lords in their halls of stone,<br />Nine for mortal men doomed to die,<br />And One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne,<br />In the lands of Mordor where the shadows lie.<p>One Ring to rule them all,<br />One Ring to find them,<br />One ring to bring them all,<br />And in the darkness bind them.<br />In the lands of Mordor where the shadows lie.<p><br />StormCast

01-10-2002, 02:34 AM	#115
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 42 Posts: 11,063	Cloak of Mirroring will also not protect the wearer from Psionics and Mental Spells either. Mental Spells include Fear, Confusion and Charm type spells. Despite all this however, it is still a very cheesy cloak. I prefer wearing the Upgraded Clock of Protection +2 for my solo Sorcerer though. [ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

01-11-2002, 05:07 PM	#117
Thoran Galvatron Join Date: January 10, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Age: 57 Posts: 2,109	Call me an newbie since I've never actually gotten in a fight with a high level cleric and mage but It would seem to me that if the cleric has some decent armor and weapons he could take out a mage pretty easily... if he can get close and through his protections enough to whack him with a powerful mace... he'll win.. if he can't he'll lose. I've been playing Paladin's for years and they seem like a very powerful setup. Fighting prowess combined with cleric spells... a strong one-on-one performer. For playing solo magic users are pretty delicate beasts... until they get to the point where they can summon help. I think it would come down to how well equipped the Cleric is... if he's fully taking advantage of the more powerful armor and weapons at his disposal a magic user would need to kill him in the first round in order to win I think... after that he'll close and start interfering with spellcasting.

01-13-2002, 04:47 AM	#118
Haddar - Servant of Talos The Magister Join Date: June 7, 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 103	Hi all. Haven't been here for quite awhile and noticed this nice little discussion. Having read all these posts I must say I wonder if you guys have played both classes. Now, it was a long time since I played the game, but I'll try to write a good post. Since there are so many spells, situations and circumstances I will not say "if your mage does that, my cleric will do that." "But then my mage will do this to counter your spell." You know what I'm trying to say... If we knew about this duel between a cleric and a mage, the two combatants would have to prepare so many different spells for every possible situation. Now I hear all you mages scream "But I have time stop, Lower resistance and Abi-Dalsim in my contingencies, triggers and god knows what." Well, there are ways around that to. And no, you can't cast Insect Plague on an invisible character, but you CAN cast it on a friendly creature (for example a summoned creature) standing close to the invisible enemy, and the Insect Plague will spread to him to, even though he is invisible. But as you guys have already stated, that is a druid spell. (Unfortunately, cause it is a really mean spell. And it is better than creeping doom, since it lasts longer. It is not the damage you want with Insect Plague. It is the 100% magic failure.) Now, I haven't soloed a mage, nor a cleric, or I have soloed both. My first solo-character was Haddar, and he is/was a multiclassed evil cleric/mage. I can't say that I used the magespells more or less than the cleric spells. The mage has more firepower with more offensive, direct-hit spells, but the highlevel cleric spells are pretty offensive too and can pack a punch. The cleric spells often work in another way than the mages. They must often be used in conjunction with another spell, then these spells become just devastating. I come to think of Finger Of Death (which in fact IS a direct-hit spell. Isn't it a cleric spell AND a mage spell?)), which is just a darn good spell. "But then I have already cast Death Ward". Yeah right. How many spells can you cast in a couple of rounds? Oh..i forgot. You knew this fight was coming, so you cast Invisibility (staff of magi...ok), Protection from Evil, Armor, Infravision?,Protection from petrification, reflected Image, Shield, Blur, Mirror image, Resist Fear, Non-Detection, protection from Cold, protection from Fire, protection from Normal missiles?, Fireshield, and so forth and so forth. And how often do you run around with Death Ward memorized? I didn't even once. Ok, but only when I knew what was coming, which is kinda unfair. But you guys have already stated that. Anyway, if Finger Of Death is not offensive, then what is? And yes, clerics only have up to level 7 spells, but in my opinion they make up for it with better lowlevel spells. At least _I_ used the "clerical" lowlevel spells more than the ones I got from the mage side. Well, who would win this battle? I honestly don't know. Luck, and skill of the player handling each character would have a high influence on the outcome. And if the players were equally matched in skill, I would say luck would determine the outcome. But if you want power, go for the multiclass cleric/mage. There you have endless possibilities, and can literally play with your enemies, testing new combos. It is veeeery slow in the lowlevels (beginning), but if you solo, you will level reasonably fast anyway. Have a nice day all! =)

01-13-2002, 04:50 AM	#119
Haddar - Servant of Talos The Magister Join Date: June 7, 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 103	Oh, and sorry for my English. I'm from Sweden. =)

01-13-2002, 08:13 PM	#120
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 42 Posts: 11,063	Yes, multiclassed Cleric/Mages are deadly. [img]smile.gif[/img]

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