Which is more powerful?

[whathuh]

sorcerers get no bonus for more than 16 con. Only fighters get that. Pretty much any race is open to sorcerers (whoever can get it that is). 19 dex vs 18 dex is just a range increment. 21 dex gives an extra AC. High con does give regeneration though.

I'm going to have to say that it is a tie between the cleric/mage and sorcerer now, however. It seems that C/ms really do have more raw power, because of their improved amount of buff spells etc... But honestly, the sorcerer is only a teensy weensy bit less powerful than the C/m, and has the ability to cast more often, and has the ability to make a complete duplicate of himself via simulacrum. If you restore the sim, then wish/rest, you get a completely functional sorcerer of the same level. Cleric/mages cant do this because the simulacrum doesn't have the spells queued up in thier spell book.

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

What do you mean by (i use dungeon be gone.)?

[ 03-31-2005, 06:16 AM: Message edited by: Variol (Farseer) Elmwood ]

[White Lancer]

Dungeon-be-gone is a mod designed to relieve the tedium of doing the beginning dungeon AGAIN. Will go find you a link shortly.

Originally posted by whathuh: [font color='white'] Snip [/font] But honestly, the sorcerer is only a teensy weensy bit less powerful than the C/m, and has the ability to cast more often, and has the ability to make a complete duplicate of himself via simulacrum. If you restore the sim, then wish/rest, you get a completely functional sorcerer of the same level. Cleric/mages cant do this because the simulacrum doesn't have the spells queued up in thier spell book.

Please explain the part in italix, how does a sorcerer get to cast more often? Only things i can think of is Improved Alachrity, which mages get, so the C/M will get it too. Then there's the robe of vecna and the amulet of power, both of which a C/M can use... i dont get it?

And as for the rest of your post, i fail to see why a C/M couldnt do it, even if it didnt have the spells memorised, you get three quick-slots, put scrolls in there.

EDIT]

From the DBG web-page: Take Note: - This MOD is rather silly, and also skips all the story elements and such just to get you to the end faster. This is aimed for those who have played the game so many times that Irenicus' dungeon has become more painful than a root canal, and less interesting than a Valygar coffee mug. If silliness and/or 'cheating' offends you, then looks like you'll just be wresting long bows from goblins for a while

Dungeon-Be-Gone

[ 03-30-2005, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: White Lancer ]

[Andraste]

Originally posted by whathuh: I'm going to have to say that it is a tie between the cleric/mage and sorcerer now, however. It seems that C/ms really do have more raw power, because of their improved amount of buff spells etc... But honestly, the sorcerer is only a teensy weensy bit less powerful than the C/m, and has the ability to cast more often, and has the ability to make a complete duplicate of himself via simulacrum.

The really, really, big, huge advantage of the sorcerer is that they don't need to decide what spell combinations they want in advance. A solo M/C will have to make far more use of 'Power Word Reload' than a sorcerer.

In a tight early battle, the final troll will regenerate, get to its feet again and lash out at the M/C, who will die thinking "Why didn't I learn just one more Melf's Acid Arrow?", and have to reload, find somewhere safe, change the spell selection, rest and try the battle again.

THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN WITH SORCERERS (I really can't stress it too strongly.)

In playing a sorcerer, not only do you get a lot of spells, but you will use them all, keeping going until every spell you have has been thrown at the enemy. In playing a sorcerer, I have often been down to zero spells left before resting. In playing a M/C I have never used more than 2/3s before the remaining spells will no longer help me progress (all I have are healing/buff and I need to fight, or visa versa).

As Xen said, right back at the start of this thread - Sorcerer is the god of magic.

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

Ok, you'll got so interested, I started over. I have a solo Sorcerer. The strange thing is that when I first did it, he started in Tob. So I had close the game and start over. But, the first time I made the char. he was given 3 prof points. Now het only got 2. Is this because he started in ToB last time?

What are some of the must have spells and how much faster do you lvl up when solo?

[ 03-31-2005, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: Variol (Farseer) Elmwood ]

[Aragorn1]

You get the XP you would have had had you gone through BG2 at the start of TOB IIRC.

[Assassin]

In a tight early battle, the final troll will regenerate, get to its feet again and lash out at the M/C, who will die thinking "Why didn't I learn just one more Melf's Acid Arrow?", and have to reload, find somewhere safe, change the spell selection, rest and try the battle again.

Erm... Wands? A C/M will never need to worry about killing Trolls, because they will always have at least one Wand of Fire with quite a few charges left. What else will you spend your money on? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

In playing a sorcerer, not only do you get a lot of spells, but you will use them all, keeping going until every spell you have has been thrown at the enemy. In playing a sorcerer, I have often been down to zero spells left before resting. In playing a M/C I have never used more than 2/3s before the remaining spells will no longer help me progress (all I have are healing/buff and I need to fight, or visa versa).

[img]redface.gif[/img] A C/M will have to rest... what? Maybe one or two times more every major quest? It's not that much, and it doesn't change the game to rest a bit more. Not to mention that most players will tool their spell selection as they progress to evolve with what they actually choose.

All arcane-magic users use the same combinations, and most likely, a C/M will have the same spells memorized as the Sorcerer has. Not to mention that if there's a random good spell combination that works on a certain monster, the C/M can use it, while if the Sorcerer doens't have it, all he can do is try and work around it.

[K2Grey]

Sorcerer doesn't have spells memorized at all. That's the whole point. This allows him to pull stuff out like Proj Image - 5x Animate Dead and still have his 5th level spells free for non-summoning spells. It lets him not hae to worry between choosing area attack spells and single attack spells. It lets him do Project Image -> 6x Wish, and retain useful 9th level spell slots (whereas C/M will have no space for anything useful in 9th level slots). Etc.

There are very few random spell combinations that are useful which a Sorc can't emulate just as easily using his 5 spells per spell level.

[Andraste]

Originally posted by Assassin: Erm... Wands? A C/M will never need to worry about killing Trolls, because they will always have at least one Wand of Fire with quite a few charges left. What else will you spend your money on? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Personally speaking, early on in the game I never have enough money. But even as the game progresses and I can buy the stuff I want, the same situation aplies. The C/M will lose battles due to having the wrong spells memorised.

In terms of who is more powerful, the sorcerer is the one who will win more battles without dieing and having to reload. The swaping spells and resting is only an irritation - the C/Ms weakness is that he/she has to use foreknowledge of what spells are required to have any hope of winning many of the battles that the sorcerer will walk through on the first play - that is a sorcerer's power.

Even without abusing 'project image', spellcasting with a sorcerer is a different and more powerful experience from that of any other magic user.

[Xen]

Originally posted by Andraste: quote: Originally posted by Assassin: Erm... Wands? A C/M will never need to worry about killing Trolls, because they will always have at least one Wand of Fire with quite a few charges left. What else will you spend your money on? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Personally speaking, early on in the game I never have enough money. But even as the game progresses and I can buy the stuff I want, the same situation aplies. The C/M will lose battles due to having the wrong spells memorised.

In terms of who is more powerful, the sorcerer is the one who will win more battles without dieing and having to reload. The swaping spells and resting is only an irritation - the C/Ms weakness is that he/she has to use foreknowledge of what spells are required to have any hope of winning many of the battles that the sorcerer will walk through on the first play - that is a sorcerer's power.

[/QUOTE]Even a Sorcerer needs a sort of foreknowledge of the game. Well the spells at least. If you pick your spells wrong, a Sorcerer can be as dangerous as my rabbit's ear.