Improved Faldorn (spoilers, but who cares)

[Imrahil]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: quote: Originally posted by Imrahil: - my last run through I didn't have Jaheira & didn't feel like levelling up Cernd, so I CTRL-J'ed my Thief into the pit, set a bunch of traps, CTRL-J'ed him out, then let Cernd fight it out with the benefit of the massive trap damage & he won - extremely cheesy/cheating, but only slightly more so than just CTRL-Y'ing Faldorn, which seems equally justified.

That I find odd--Faldorn has permanent Physical Mirror (to counter the Guard cheese), which, if it works like the Shield of Reflection, bounces the damage back to the Trap-setter....so Faldorn should have been unaffected, but your Thief should have died. Interesting. [/QUOTE]I think I've figured this one out, after conducting some tests, along with this...

Originally posted by Dace De'Briago: Weimer has modded (i.e. cheesed) Cernd to have a decent chance of beating her. For some reason he has several thousand hitpoints and they fight for several minutes before a winner is decided.

... the Traps do "go off", killing Faldorn's summons, but since she's in the pit, the Trap damage is reflected *in the pit only*, where there's no valid target, so it doesn't affect my Thief who's outside the pit.

After trying this again, I CTRL-J'd my Thief into the pit after the battle (for the heck of it, to try to figure out what was going on), at which point he received the full backlash ("Faldorn does 56 damage to CHARNAME; Faldorn does 52 damage to CHARNAME; etc..."), even though Faldorn was already dead.

The damage from Traps doesn't affect Faldorn, but can't be reflected outside the pit, much like AoE spells don't affect the inside of the pit. But... it does *slightly* increase Cernd's odds of winning (assuming he's not in your party, but rather in cutscene mode), since he doesn't have to deal with her Summons.

Not a useful tactic, really, unless you use the CTRL-J thing + HLA Traps, but interesting to note. [img]smile.gif[/img]

- Imrahil

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Assassin: This is what I gathered from this thread: in a battle where Cernd is taken into your party, and then you challenge Faldorn, Cernd will lose unless you have Rebalanced Shapeshifter is installed. However, if you use the conversation with Cernd to initiate the challenge, then he will win 1/2 of the time on Core rules.

How do I use the conversation with Cernd to initiate the challenge? Do I just go back and talk to him after beating the last Shadow Druids gaurding Faldorn's "inner sanctum"? Or do I have to let Cernd re-join my party then enter Faldorn's area with him?

I'm hoping to finish off the Druid Grove quest tonight, so I would like to know exactly how to get Cernd to challenge Faldorn.

On another note, I had a strange bug happen last night with the game. After defeating Kyland Lind and his crew, then killing all the myconids on the bridge between there and the shops, I went into the first shop where the lady is supposed to be selling potions. Except she refused to sell to me. I initiated dialogue with her and she said she could "smell the stink of the djinni on me". Then she turned hostile and summoned her two back-ups to attack. OK - I knew I would have to face this fight eventually, but having just finished a really tough fight right before this, I was in no condition to take them on. It's nothing 8 hours of rest won't fix, but I was just wondering how she was able to detect the "stink of the djinni" on me in the first place. Is this a change made in the latest version of Tactics?

[Link]

Nope.. You have visited the djinni's in Trademeet, and talked to them. If you've done that, the old lady reveals herself as Ihtafeer, the rakshasha the djinni's are looking for. If you have Jan in your party, he will know who 'she' is as well. It has nothing to do with Tactics [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Link: Nope.. You have visited the djinni's in Trademeet, and talked to them. If you've done that, the old lady reveals herself as Ihtafeer, the rakshasha the djinni's are looking for. If you have Jan in your party, he will know who 'she' is as well. It has nothing to do with Tactics [img]smile.gif[/img]

Aha. I thought the Djinni Quest wouldn't kick in until after I completed the Grove Quest. No problem - that will just save me from wasting time making a second trip back to the Grove. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[Imrahil]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: How do I use the conversation with Cernd to initiate the challenge? Do I just go back and talk to him after beating the last Shadow Druids gaurding Faldorn's "inner sanctum"? Or do I have to let Cernd re-join my party then enter Faldorn's area with him?

Given your level & the fact that you have "Rebalanced" Shapeshifter (you said you'd installed all components of Ease of Use, right?), you could go with either choice.

If you take him into your party, make sure to rest right before entering the Grove proper & have him memorize a couple of Ironskins, Summon Greater Bearwere, & maybe Dolorous Decay. Have him pre-buff (hehe... see EDIT) with everything you can, then challenge, Summon Bearweres, Shapeshift Greater Werewolf (then equip The Paw), Dolorous Decay, attack, Ironskins as needed. You should win fairly easily.

If you don't want him in your party, you need to talk to Faldorn first, then go back & talk to Cernd & tell him what you discovered. He'll then say he's going to challenge Faldorn & you'll be transported into the Grove where he'll fight in cutscene mode & he should have a 50-50 shot at winning.

- Imrahil

EDIT: I generally let my spelling mistakes go, but I couldn't leave "Have him pre-puff..." in there [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 07-28-2004, 12:33 AM: Message edited by: Imrahil ]

[Link]

Originally posted by Imrahil: EDIT: I generally let my spelling mistakes go, but I couldn't leave "Have him pre-puff..." in there [img]smile.gif[/img]

Stoned-skin? Oh.. hang on, he uses Ironskins [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Imrahil: Given your level & the fact that you have "Rebalanced" Shapeshifter (you said you'd installed all components of Ease of Use, right?), you could go with either choice. If you take him into your party, make sure to rest right before entering the Grove proper & have him memorize a couple of Ironskins, Summon Greater Bearwere, & maybe Dolorous Decay. Have him pre-buff (hehe... see EDIT) with everything you can, then challenge, Summon Bearweres, Shapeshift Greater Werewolf (then equip The Paw), Dolorous Decay, attack, Ironskins as needed. You should win fairly easily. If you don't want him in your party, you need to talk to Faldorn first, then go back & talk to Cernd & tell him what you discovered. He'll then say he's going to challenge Faldorn & you'll be transported into the Grove where he'll fight in cutscene mode & he should have a 50-50 shot at winning. - Imrahil EDIT: I generally let my spelling mistakes go, but I couldn't leave "Have him pre-puff..." in there [img]smile.gif[/img]

Aha - that explains the trouble I had. I kept talking to Cernd first and eventually chose every one of the possible dialogue options - but no matter what I did, my BARD was the one that kept getting transported into the pit with Faldorn.

I DID eventually beat her, but I had to use my customized CNTRL-Y Wardstone to do it. Guess I'll have to go back and do the second half of the Druid Grove quest again {sigh}

I also had another major problem with the rakshasas that the djinni's are after. I tried to go ahead and finish that little quest up while I was in the Grove, but rakshasas seemed to be immune to EVERY spell I cast. I cast Cone of Cold, Greater Malison, Dire Charm, Melf's Acid Arrow, Magic Missile and Chromatic Orb. I even hit them with my Wand of Lightning and every single time the feedback window showed the message "Spell Ineffective" [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img] WHAT is making them immune to every spell I have???

[Dundee Slaytern]

Rakshasas are not mewlings. They required +3 enchanted weapons or better to hit, and are immuned to spells from level 1-7.

If you have Skeleton Warriors, now would be a good time to use them, as their weapons are +3 enchanted (summoned SWs are different).

[JrKASperov]

Your only chance to defeat rakshasha's is to have a good thac0 and smack em down! 5 or lower would do.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by JrKASperov: Your only chance to defeat rakshasha's is to have a good thac0 and smack em down! 5 or lower would do.

They actually turned out to be far less intimidating than I would have expected. I went back and re-started my game from the point where I had just defeated Kyland Lind and the Shadow Druids. After killing the myconids on the bridge, I went into the first shop I came to and saw what appeared to be a woman selling potions. That is where I stopped for the night and Saved the game.

This time around, I initiated dialogue and the "woman" went hostile immediately (since I had talked to the djinn before leaving Trademeet). Since I now knew my spells would be ineffective, I decided to just attack with my Upgraded Zerth Blade (which is a +5 weapon). I still had my Stoneskin in effect from the Shadow Druid battle and I managed to actually kill the primary rakshasa. The other two were hacking away helplessly at me, but eventually got through my stoneskin. That's when I decided to take my leave. I used my remaing spells to kill the spider behind the buildings and the first two Shambling Mounds. Between the Mounds and the last two rakshasas, I took some fairly heavy damage, so I had to drink two of my Potions of Extra Healing. I then rested for the night and regained my spells. The last Shambling Mound and the Myconids on the other side of the bridge went down very quickly to my renewed spells. I then paused when I saw Cernd and pre-buffed with Draw Upon Holy Might, Improved Invisibility, and Haste (one thing I learned is that if I cast Improved Invisibility before Haste, enemies will automatically detect me. If I cast Haste first, they don't know I'm there. Weird.). The next enemy was a group of grizzly bears. The "saw" through my invisibility and moved to attack, until I blasted them with a Fireball, then they ran away. I chased them down and hacked them up with my Haste spell - then moved down to attack Dalok and his cronies. I moved close enough for some AoE spells, but NOT close enough to actually see them yet. I cast Web, Cloudkill, and Fireball into the blacked-out area - then moved forward to get them on the screen. Two Skull Traps killed the 4 Animal Companions AND Dalok. The other two druids remained helplessly trapped within my web and I picked them off with Melf's Acid Arrows and Magic Missiles.

After defeating all the enemies, it was time to go see Faldorn. I SAVED the game because I wanted to try both options (going solo and having Cernd in my party). This time, I made sure to speak to Faldorn first (before speaking to Cernd). I asked if we could negotiate for the lives of those in Trademeet, but she wasn't in a negotiating mood. So I went back to tell Cernd what I had found out.

Now - according to what others have said - I should have the option of allowing Cernd to accept the challenge while I just stand on the sidelines as an observer, but THAT NEVER HAPPENED!!!

Once again, NO MATTER WHAT OPTION I chose, it was MY character that invariably got teleported into the pit with Faldorn. I tried adding Cernd to my party and having HIM speak to Faldorn when we returned to the Grove. I tried not adding Cernd to my party and he told me I could follow and observe his eventual victory or defeat - yet the game still plopped MY character into the pit every single time. In other words, I tried every, single option or choice available to me, and STILL ended up facing Faldorn with my bard every single time. {sigh} So I was forced to just use CNTRL-Y and forfeit any experience I might have gained from Cernd defeating her (however, the loss of that XP now "justifies" my use of the upgraded Zerth Blade. I consider it an even trade-off).

After the battle in the pit, I went back to the shop with the rakshasas. Stoneskin, Haste, and Improved Invisibility made very short work of both of them and prevented me from suffering any significant damage in the process.

So I went back to Trademeet, recieved a Heroe's Welcome, and promptly looted several choice items and scrolls from some of the vendors (sorry, I just couldn't help myself). Now I've been approached by two families to recover an item from the Crypt Tomb.