Grand Theft Auto inspires Thai murder

[Yorick]

I wonder what happens if the whole forum is on his ignore list?

[Firestormalpha]

I imagine it would be quite dull.

[Bungleau]

I believe Chewbacca was poking fun at the series of Holiday Inn commercials where people do things well out of their skill set, but because they slept at a Holiday Inn the previous night, it's all okay. Hence the winking smiley at the end

As for the other parts of the arguments... I can say that I did not anticipate the game having *any* impact on my driving, so when it happened in the real world, I was surprised.

I also noticed that it was different... and the ability to recognize that things are different is not as common as one would hope. I suspect many people may not have noticed the difference, and may have just thought that they were in a mood to have fun (twisty roads) or were surrounded by stupider drivers ('nuff said).

I also confess I have not read Hillary Clinton's It Takes A Village, so I don't know to what extent I agree or disagree with her positions and her nice catchphrase. However, I do *NOT* believe in deferring the responsibility for raising my children *TO* the village... *I* am responsible (along with my wife, of course ), not the village. The village, however, is a support infrastructure for all of us.

Perhaps I'm too me-focused... I'm only really concerned with raising my kids, not other people's. Perhaps later on I'll be concerned with others, but right now, I have my hands full.

[Yorick]

Originally Posted by Firestormalpha I imagine it would be quite dull.

Would ever only hear opinions he agrees with.

[Yorick]

Originally Posted by Bungleau I also confess I have not read Hillary Clinton's It Takes A Village, so I don't know to what extent I agree or disagree with her positions and her nice catchphrase. However, I do *NOT* believe in deferring the responsibility for raising my children *TO* the village... *I* am responsible (along with my wife, of course ), not the village. The village, however, is a support infrastructure for all of us.

It's not a way for parents to have less responsibility, but for those of us IN the village to take greater responsibility for other children in our "village".

Similarly attaching blame to game creators in no way diminishes personal responsibility or removes culpability for an individuals actions. It adds blame rather than dividing it.

[Bungleau]

Let's keep it civil, every one. Sniping on any side will not help to make one's point.

Thanks for the clarification on the Village, Yorick. I may have to get past my distaste for her to read her thoughts.

[Cerek]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca No! I did not. This is patently false. This type of debate tactic is an example of why I find this discussion hardly worth doing. In fact, I'm finished. Have fun being "right".

QFT:

Originally Posted by Chewbacca Hey Cerek, Like I have clearly stated, i won't take way any freedom. Is individual responsibility limited to individual actions, or do we have individual responsibility to our community as well? I see the harm which easily available, easy to use handguns does cause my society. It is clear, apparent, and factual. It's clearly irresponsible to allow such harm to continue. Take deaths from accidents involving minors for example. Simply put, ONE dead child from handgun misuse is too many. No compromise! One is too much. So I won't take freedom away, but I will pray for the day we wise up and I will speak up. Take Care, Chewy

My sincerest apologies, Chewbacca. I didn't remember the context of your post. I am wrong and I stand humbly corrected.

[Yorick]

Originally Posted by Bungleau Let's keep it civil, every one. Sniping on any side will not help to make one's point.

Sniping from me won't be read

Thanks for the clarification on the Village, Yorick. I may have to get past my distaste for her to read her thoughts.

No worries mate.

[Cerek]

Originally Posted by Bungleau Let's keep it civil, every one. Sniping on any side will not help to make one's point. Thanks for the clarification on the Village, Yorick. I may have to get past my distaste for her to read her thoughts.

I can give a personal example from my youthful day. A new bowling alley opened in our little town right after I graduated high school. I was there one evening with some of my friends having a good time, but bowling a lousy game. As my game got progressively worse, I got frustrated and started spouting profanity after each ball. This continued for a couple of frames. Finally, one of my friends pointed out that there was a family using the lanes next to us and they had their very young son with them - around 5-6. My buddy said "Uh, you might want to tone your language down a bit." I looked over at the mom and felt like crawling under the table. I had gotten so wrapped up in myself that I didn't pay attention to anyone around me. I was just showing out in front of my friends.

I sheepishly apologized to their mom and tried my best to turn invisible for the rest of the evening.

I could have said "Hey, it's a free country with free speech. I have a right to cuss if I want to." Well, that may be true, but I also have an obligation to NOT have a negative influence on young child if I can avoid doing so.

As for the games in question, I'm really not overly concerned about them falling in the hands of young kids (although that IS a problem). I agree it falls to the parent to prevent that from happening. My concern is more with the young adult crowds, the ones that are wanting to establish their own identity. It is a natural instinct for youths in this group to want to "challenge the system" and a game like GTA4 only feeds that instinct even more. The fact is, young children aren't the ones going out trying to steal cars or shoot police officers. It's the young adults who are usually past the age of parental control that do these things.

While it IS the parent's responsibility to establish a sense of morals and "right and wrong" in their children, the parent can only do so much. I'm certain everyone here can think of at least one person they grew up with that had good parents and a good home, but still ended up doing things they shouldn't and getting in a lot of trouble. Parenting only goes so far.

[Chewbacca]

Hey Cerek, Thanks.

I am concerned when you write stuff like:

It is a natural instinct for youths in this group to want to "challenge the system" and a game like GTA4 only feeds that instinct even more.

How? What is it about the story or structure of the game that causes this "instinct feeding? How do you know this if you have not played the game?


I hear your concerns on the damage to young pysche, and I think Nature provides us with parents and an ever-growing potential for good judgment to alleviate such concerns.

But you stretch the truth of what the game really is and leave out it's many diverse compenents. You refer to it as a crime simulator, it is not. It is rather like a roleplaying game set in a simulated cityscape.

You may commit crimes, but the cops are smart and lethal. "Bangin aint ez"! Being a criminal certainly isn't glorified. Nearly every criminal in the games gets killed or jailed. Getting away from cops can be over-simplistic and easy, but it is obviously a freaking game after all.

GTA 4 is mainly the story of Nico Bellic. Yes, he is a killer, but do you know why? What about the vast setting; it's characters and beauty- complex, hilarious, tragic. Simply Amazing!

Refering to it as a "crime simulator" is a lie at worst and extreme hyperbole at best and is most Def an insult to the people who love and know the game. As such, I would expect strong reactions and skeptical inquiry in response.

Later!