U.S. deserted ruled (not a refugee) in Canada

Knightscape · 03-24-2005, 07:53 PM

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...fe_soldier_col

Felix The Assassin · 03-24-2005, 08:02 PM

Ok, so you guys get to deal with him for 'several years' during the appeals process.

Send him on back daown, he can get an early start on making gravel from boulders.

shamrock_uk · 03-24-2005, 09:17 PM

It does raise an interesting question. I've considered joining the military, but the Iraq war really gave me pause - it made me think just what do you do if your government sends you off to fight a war that you don't believe in? I kindof have some sympathy with this guy, although I do of course understand he must be punished.

Azred · 03-25-2005, 01:07 AM

Shamrock_uk, there is a place in the military for "conscientious objectors" (if they even still call them that these days). You can serve in the military without having to be in a combat role--intelligence, operations, maintenance, medical, etc.

Never forget, though, that even though you may disagree with a conflict you must still honor your obligations--you choose to serve--and follow orders. It can be done without running away.

Dedzy · 03-25-2005, 04:52 AM

It is well known that once you join the military, you basically become their bitch for the amount of years specified in the contract. If you have ANY PROBLEM AT ALL following orders without question, DON'T JOIN. The armed forces is not a place for people who think they can contradict orders because of their feelings.
I voted against G.W.B and disagree with the way he is managing the Iraq war, along with many of the things he is doing domestically. My solution: I never joined.

Mouse · 03-25-2005, 08:10 AM

It is not entirely as clear-cut as some may claim. Leaving aside the fact that the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials post WWII removed "only folowing orders" as a valid defence to war crimes, the final paragraph here makes an entirely valid point.

Azred · 03-25-2005, 01:41 PM

An interesting article, Mouse. Unfortunately the military action in Iraq is not illegal despite what the person in question might think. It is highly unlikely that he was given illegal orders.

shamrock_uk · 03-25-2005, 03:58 PM

Not to derail the thread, but some 80% of the world would disagree with you there Azred

Seeing as the UN is the primary body that is responsible for international legislation on issues like security, the fact that the Bush administration brands it irrelevent tells me something about where he stands in international law. Couple this with the fact that the senior legal advisor to the Brits changed his mind three times and only said it was legal about a week before the war started, along with the fact that Kofi Annan called it illegal IIRC and the situation definitely isn't clear cut.

Not saying it was illegal; I'm sure its possible to massage the law and the resolutions enough to wangle it, but there are a lot of people who see things differently.

And yeah, nice post there Mouse [img]smile.gif[/img]

Azred · 03-25-2005, 07:44 PM

That is one fundamental problem with the UN, shamrock_uk: it has no real ability to back up its decisions, like those toy dog breeds they are all bark and no bite. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

If 80% of the world disagrees with me then I must be doing something right. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

shamrock_uk · 03-25-2005, 07:59 PM

But would you honestly prefer it if a hypothetical UN with teeth declared war on the US instead of just ticking it off?

03-24-2005, 07:53 PM	#1
Knightscape Manshoon Join Date: October 4, 2001 Location: Canada Age: 18 Posts: 158	http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...fe_soldier_col __________________ If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it. W. C. Fields

03-24-2005, 08:02 PM	#2
Felix The Assassin The Dreadnoks Join Date: September 27, 2001 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 62 Posts: 3,608	Ok, so you guys get to deal with him for 'several years' during the appeals process. Send him on back daown, he can get an early start on making gravel from boulders. __________________ The Lizzie Palmer Tribute Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. John F. Kennedy 35th President of The United States The Last Shot Honor The Fallen Jesus died for our sins, and American Soldiers died for our freedom. If you don't stand behind our Soldiers, please feel free to stand in front of them.

03-25-2005, 01:07 AM	#4
Azred Drow Priestess Join Date: March 13, 2001 Location: a hidden sanctorum high above the metroplex Age: 55 Posts: 4,037	Shamrock_uk, there is a place in the military for "conscientious objectors" (if they even still call them that these days). You can serve in the military without having to be in a combat role--intelligence, operations, maintenance, medical, etc. Never forget, though, that even though you may disagree with a conflict you must still honor your obligations--you choose to serve--and follow orders. It can be done without running away. __________________ Everything may be explained by a conspiracy theory. All conspiracy theories are true. No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

03-25-2005, 04:52 AM	#5
Dedzy The Magister Join Date: March 19, 2004 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Age: 55 Posts: 100	It is well known that once you join the military, you basically become their bitch for the amount of years specified in the contract. If you have ANY PROBLEM AT ALL following orders without question, DON'T JOIN. The armed forces is not a place for people who think they can contradict orders because of their feelings. I voted against G.W.B and disagree with the way he is managing the Iraq war, along with many of the things he is doing domestically. My solution: I never joined. __________________ \"Ph\'nglui mglw\'nafh Cthulhu R\'lyeh wagn\'nagl fhtagn.\" <br />\"In his house in R\'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming.\"

03-25-2005, 08:10 AM	#6
Mouse Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 2,788	It is not entirely as clear-cut as some may claim. Leaving aside the fact that the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials post WWII removed "only folowing orders" as a valid defence to war crimes, the final paragraph here makes an entirely valid point. __________________ Regards Mouse (Occasional crooner and all round friendly Scottish rodent)

03-24-2005, 09:17 PM	#3
shamrock_uk Dracolich Join Date: January 24, 2004 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 3,092	It does raise an interesting question. I've considered joining the military, but the Iraq war really gave me pause - it made me think just what do you do if your government sends you off to fight a war that you don't believe in? I kindof have some sympathy with this guy, although I do of course understand he must be punished.

03-25-2005, 01:41 PM	#7
Azred Drow Priestess Join Date: March 13, 2001 Location: a hidden sanctorum high above the metroplex Age: 55 Posts: 4,037	An interesting article, Mouse. Unfortunately the military action in Iraq is not illegal despite what the person in question might think. It is highly unlikely that he was given illegal orders. __________________ Everything may be explained by a conspiracy theory. All conspiracy theories are true. No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

03-25-2005, 03:58 PM	#8
shamrock_uk Dracolich Join Date: January 24, 2004 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 3,092	Not to derail the thread, but some 80% of the world would disagree with you there Azred Seeing as the UN is the primary body that is responsible for international legislation on issues like security, the fact that the Bush administration brands it irrelevent tells me something about where he stands in international law. Couple this with the fact that the senior legal advisor to the Brits changed his mind three times and only said it was legal about a week before the war started, along with the fact that Kofi Annan called it illegal IIRC and the situation definitely isn't clear cut. Not saying it was illegal; I'm sure its possible to massage the law and the resolutions enough to wangle it, but there are a lot of people who see things differently. And yeah, nice post there Mouse [img]smile.gif[/img]

03-25-2005, 07:44 PM	#9
Azred Drow Priestess Join Date: March 13, 2001 Location: a hidden sanctorum high above the metroplex Age: 55 Posts: 4,037	That is one fundamental problem with the UN, shamrock_uk: it has no real ability to back up its decisions, like those toy dog breeds they are all bark and no bite. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] If 80% of the world disagrees with me then I must be doing something right. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] __________________ Everything may be explained by a conspiracy theory. All conspiracy theories are true. No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.

03-25-2005, 07:59 PM	#10
shamrock_uk Dracolich Join Date: January 24, 2004 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 3,092	But would you honestly prefer it if a hypothetical UN with teeth declared war on the US instead of just ticking it off?

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