Since the thread's been locked...

[Melusine]

... and I just have to stick my nose in...
I'm talking about the Miss Universe thread for those of us who hadn't notcied yet.
Sorry to open a new thread but I thought it'd be only fair if I could have a word in it myself, seeing how I am the addressee of the post that led to a ban.
Look, I know I am in no position to question the moderators' and Ziroc's decision, so I'm not going to. But for what it's worth, I just wanted to say that I was in no way offended by what Aaron/The Hierophant posted. I know him well enough to figure that he had just been drinking too much. And of course this was the case. He doesn't remember anything about posting the message in question and he's a good friend so whatever he said to me was never meant to be taken seriously. Now I realise that this doesn't change one bit about the fact that he used a swear word that is expressly forbidden according to the terms of service, and therefore as I said I cannot and would not challenge Ziroc's decision in this matter. However, from the precise words you used, Dan, I seem to infer that the fact that Hierophant's post was an attack made the offense much worse in your eyes than if he had just cursed towards nothing in particular. And if that is true, than I hasten to stress again that he's a friend of mine and I took the post in no way seriously, and was not offended by it. I'm just mentioning this because - and I don't want to come across as a smart-ass, I swear! - I have seen you yourself and many other members use the word "damn" in the past few days, even though that was one of the "forbidden" words. And how often has someone like Lord of Alcohol (God bless him [img]smile.gif[/img] ) posted incredibly offensive things while roaring drunk only to regret it the next day and edit his messages? The Hierophant did the exact same thing only he swore at a member of your board and I can imagine you'd ban him for that. But what if the member herself said it's all good? Would you maybe want to reconsider the indefinite character of the ban and change it into a month-long suspension as Larry thought would be the punishment? I really hope so! [img]smile.gif[/img]
I havent spoken to Aaron yet so I have no idea whether he'll appreciate my whiny post about this but I did receive an email with an apology and an explanation. He seems to accept the ban as punishment for his post but I for one hope the above will change your mind Dan. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Thanks for reading!

[Davros]

I was expecting something like this from Sarah. I know that she and Aaron have contact outside IW and that while the words of what was said were outside the boundaries of IW, the intent was not poisonous like it may have seemed. If you are not swayed by Sarah's appeal then I urge you Dan to cut the sentence back to a time frame rather than indefinite like you posted.

Cheers Sarah, Aaron, and Dan - I am hoping for a better outcome.

[Vaskez]

Yeah I was a bit surprised myself - alcohol would explain it and I know Hiero didn't have any hate in his heart

[Grojlach]

I've also sent a PM to Dan about this, but I'll just echo the things Davros and Melusine have already said in this topic topic.

[Memnoch]

Unfortunately I missed this incident, but as a moderator it's clear to see why Ziroc and Larry took the action they did, because on the surface Hiero violated a rule we hold sacrosanct, regarding personal abuse of a fellow forum member, which is something we take very seriously. We do not tell people to "eff off, seriously", on this board.

Having said that, I've always thought that Aaron was a good bloke and felt that the outburst was out of character for him.

At the end of the day, whether or not he was drunk, whether or not Mel was offended, he broke an Ironworks rule and there is a penalty associated with that, which we will decide. Aaron will need to accept that penalty - we need to be responsible and accountable for what we post here. But if he's showing remorse for what he did and if it's obvious that he didn't mean it, then an indefinite ban would appear to be too harsh, wouldn't it.

It's Z's call in the end, but if Aaron was to write an email to Z explaining why this happened, an apology for provoking a degree of discord to our forum, and a promise to not do it again, it can only help his cause.

[ 06-04-2004, 08:34 AM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

[Melusine]

It's only personal abuse if I took it that way.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's one of the best rules we have (that you cannot abuse another member) and I know it can't be denied that what he did *was* curse at me, but like I said, I never took it seriously. Heck, I've said worse things to him in private - which may be why he forgot where he was and responded in the sort of way we usually talk to each other. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Anyway, like I said he said he could see why Dan took this action and agrees with it, sort of. So I don't know if Aaron himself wants to beg to be let back in after a temporary ban. But ah well. Just thought I'd let you know how I took his comment. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Larry_OHF]

PWI, Posting while Intoxicated.

We should incorporate that into the forum rules.
Obviously, the guy is going to have to pay a price for his infraction against the law, intended or not. Drunk drivers do not intend to injure/kill innocent people, but they still get a penalty.

The time of suspension/ban is always up to Ziroc, so appealing directly to him is the only way to get the matter resolved...and he needs to do it personally. Others have been banned and come back to us when I thought that they'd never be seen again. Ziroc is a very forgiving soul.

[Larry_OHF]

Melusine, you did not take it seriously, but how many IW members did?

Wanna know how I found out about it? A Report Post. Somebody else was offended and thought he was doing you a favor by calling help to your side.

Anyway, it sounds to me that he needs to simply speak to Ziroc about it.

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: Melusine, you did not take it seriously, but how many IW members did? Wanna know how I found out about it? A Report Post. Somebody else was offended and thought he was doing you a favor by calling help to your side. Anyway, it sounds to me that he needs to simply speak to Ziroc about it.

This is a good point. Abuse does not need to offend just the person being abused. This is an online community and what people post affect all of us. And Mel, we're not asking Aaron to beg his way back - it's really more us wanting an explanation of why this happened and wanting to have some confidence that it wouldn't happen again, before we make any decisions. I would hardly call that begging. But as you said, it's his call, and ultimately Dan's.

[ 06-04-2004, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

[Melusine]

Gosh, what a bunch of tender little souls people have, to be offended every time someone else is insulted. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
I think people reported the post because they thought *I* was insulted, or because they were insulted by the f-word, but not because they were offended by the insult to me.

Anyway.

Like I said I'm not discussing or challenging the rules that lead to a banning here, I'm just asking whether it would not be a mitigating circumstance if the insult was not taken as one.
And AFAIK, Aaron's already emailed Dan. I just don't know whether such a big fuss should be made over this when as I said, several members have used curse words in the last few days and several people have used the f-word here when drunk in the past. Oops, now I *am* challenging the rules, sorry. Hmm, no, scratch that - not challenging them, just their application. [img]smile.gif[/img]